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Basic Electrics

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Len Morris 212/07/2020 19:35:28
17 forum posts

Hi,

I think a new addition to the forums should be "Basic Electrics"

CNC, electronics, VFD's etc all have a place, but many of us have to deal with old machines. Drum switches, contactors, single phase and three phase, difficult connecters etc.

Regards

Len

Peter G. Shaw13/07/2020 09:07:45
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1121 forum posts
44 photos

And not so old machines at that, eg the oldest I have is 25 years old. And there is the pistol drill at probably 35 to 40 years old (and which still makes the battery powered things look puny!)

Yes, sometimes, especially as age creeps up, some of us just cannot be bothered with these new-fangled devices, and in any case, these electronic add-ons are sometimes worth more than the machine.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

martin perman13/07/2020 10:21:34
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1835 forum posts
78 photos

+1 for this, a good idea

Edited By martin perman on 13/07/2020 10:21:59

KWIL13/07/2020 10:32:15
3262 forum posts
63 photos

Agree with Peter, I remember one of "Desoutter's Little Horses" a tiny very compact pistol drill with enormous power.

Norman Billingham13/07/2020 10:56:31
39 forum posts

I think the drive for battery powered tools comes mainly from site safety considerations - low voltages and no trailing leads. Mains powered is hands down better for serious drilling and sawing - though I wouldn't be without my cordless drill/driver.

Fowlers Fury13/07/2020 11:44:01
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345 forum posts
77 photos

I'd like to better Peter Shaw's claim to fame viz " And there is the pistol drill at probably 35 to 40 years old (and which still makes the battery powered things look puny!) "
I'm now 76 and my parents gave me a Christmas present when I was 11. It was a mains Wolf Cub drill.
(I should add Santa also provided a lambswool polishing bonnet no doubt in response to my mother's letter to him because she used the my drill regularly for polishing the lino).
Altho' it has a 1/4" fairly crude chuck - it is still in regular use after 65 years.
I echo Peter's words - it makes the battery powered things look puny.
To my shame it has only been dismantled once to clean out sawdust and to oil the felt pad. I've also replaced the mains lead - again, once.

Circlip13/07/2020 11:57:20
1134 forum posts

" I think a new addition to the forums should be "Basic Electrics" "

Go wash your mouth out with Citric Acid. At the time when DIY was a necessity rather than a " Hobby " some of us lone hands ( frugal Yorkshireman ) were complimented by those who knew, on the professionalism exhibited on various "DIY" jobs. Sadly with the advent of the various big box suppliers serving the great unwashed with equipment and parts they had no experience of correct usage but wanted "to have a go", plumbing and electrikery has been designated to the black arts which need numerous pieces of paper to state qualifications to replace a d**n great lump of material rather than a simple piece.

BEWARE THE INSURANCE COMPANY cos since Lynn Falls Wood got her fingers in the mix there are six possibilities of wiring a 13amp plug incorrectly for many. (Used to teach us this at school), needs a sparky and a certificate of conformity now.

Regards Ian.

Grindstone Cowboy13/07/2020 12:46:12
313 forum posts
27 photos
Posted by Circlip on 13/07/2020 11:57:20:

BEWARE THE INSURANCE COMPANY cos since Lynn Falls Wood got her fingers in the mix there are six possibilities of wiring a 13amp plug incorrectly for many. (Used to teach us this at school), needs a sparky and a certificate of conformity now.

Regards Ian.

When our family moved abroad, I was given the task of swapping all of the square pin 13 amp plugs on our equipment to the local 15 amp round pin plugs. I had just turned eight at the time.

Had to do it all in reverse when we moved back six years later. laugh

Rob

Harry Wilkes13/07/2020 14:05:22
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929 forum posts
61 photos

Not wishing to put a damp squid on the suggestion of a section for "basic electrics" but I don't not feel it to be a good idea, I know any advice tended on this forum can have it's consequences if not carried out correctly however with electrics one mistake can be one to many. This forum is a great resource and lot's of helpful people but at times to helpful with advice which is going off subject and when your talking about electrics of mains voltage could be deadly. At the moment anyone looking for for suggestions to solve their electric problem will normally get it solved.

h

V8Eng13/07/2020 14:14:48
1447 forum posts
28 photos

Most places I worked in had notices saying Electricity Kills (or can kill), that is a pretty good bet if people who do not understand it dabble.

Keith Wyles13/07/2020 14:19:05
33 forum posts
Posted by Fowlers Fury on 13/07/2020 11:44:01:

I'd like to better Peter Shaw's claim to fame viz " And there is the pistol drill at probably 35 to 40 years old (and which still makes the battery powered things look puny!) "
I'm now 76 and my parents gave me a Christmas present when I was 11. It was a mains Wolf Cub drill.
(I should add Santa also provided a lambswool polishing bonnet no doubt in response to my mother's letter to him because she used the my drill regularly for polishing the lino).
Altho' it has a 1/4" fairly crude chuck - it is still in regular use after 65 years.
I echo Peter's words - it makes the battery powered things look puny.
To my shame it has only been dismantled once to clean out sawdust and to oil the felt pad. I've also replaced the mains lead - again, once.

Mine is a slightly younger white and gold B&D with a 1/2" chuck. It was my third drill in my teens. I bought it with savings. Previously I burnt out an old secondhand drill and a cheap B&D, both gifts. I remember my mother trying to persuade me not to buy it, but it lasted much better than the first 2. Suspect it will outlast me. I saw a tradesman using one a few years ago, he had rescued it from a skip.

Phil Whitley13/07/2020 14:48:01
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1222 forum posts
146 photos

On the general concensus devloping on this thread that electrickery is dangerous, and kills you dead at the first opportunity, I would like to remind you all that any machinery with exposed moving parts is dangerous, steam is dangerous, ladders are dangerous, knives are dangerous etc etc, and the one thing that removes the danger as far as possible is education, you do not need to understand electricity mathematically or scientifically, to produce a safe correct and working installation, you just have to follow a certain set of rules that apply to all the above "dangerous" items. I think this is a very good idea, along the lines of " electric motors in the home workshop" which we all use! As a qualified and certificated electrical engineer, I would be very supportive of this type of topic, mainly because this sort of subject leads to more safety, and more knowledge in the home workshop.

Phil

Peter G. Shaw13/07/2020 14:54:05
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1121 forum posts
44 photos

In fact, the present mains drill was on offer, maybe it was shop soiled, B&D H68V, 1/2 in chuck, 2 mechanical speeds, trigger speed controller, drill or drill + hammer selector. Prior to this one I have had a B&D 720 which I managed to burn out a few times, and a B&D 820, can't remember what happened to that, but the present one has done very well for me.

The first drill was bought for my 21st birthday back in the days when being 21 meant something.

If anyone's interested, the H68V came from Arnold Laver in Bradford.

Peter G. Shaw

Neil Wyatt13/07/2020 15:18:09
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Moderator
17970 forum posts
709 photos
77 articles

I'm quite happy for 'basic' issues to be discussed in the electronics topic - it's all the same electrons...

There are lots of sensible issues that could be covered, from making crimp connections and using a continuity tester to how to identify motor windings and connect a Dewhurst switch.

If anyone sees genuinely unsafe advice please just report the posting.

Neil

 

 

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 13/07/2020 15:18:32

Alan Bone13/07/2020 15:49:27
4 forum posts

I have an ancient Millers Falls 1/2 inch chuck drill which my father used in his workshop about 1946. About 300rpm, weighs about 8 kg, with a "D" grip on the end and 2 x 1" (25mm) x 12" (300mm) water pipe side grips. Cannot be stalled, if the drill bit catches, operator spins instead.

Alan

Bill Davies 213/07/2020 16:02:17
192 forum posts
11 photos

Alan's comment reminds me of the 'gut-buster' power drills used where I worked for drilling holes by hand on top of 20 ton castings. Big motor, a pipe handle sticking out on each side, usually a two-man job. I can't recall what make they were, but I imagine there was a genuine risk of rotating the operator !

Bill

Nicholas Farr13/07/2020 18:54:14
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2318 forum posts
1137 photos
Posted by Harry Wilkes on 13/07/2020 14:05:22:

Not wishing to put a damp squid on the suggestion of a section for "basic electrics" but I don't not feel it to be a good idea, I know any advice tended on this forum can have it's consequences if not carried out correctly however with electrics one mistake can be one to many. This forum is a great resource and lot's of helpful people but at times to helpful with advice which is going off subject and when your talking about electrics of mains voltage could be deadly. At the moment anyone looking for for suggestions to solve their electric problem will normally get it solved.

h

Hi Harry, on the other hand, those who are looking for an answer but can not get one, may go ahead and do what they think is right, but may put them selves in serious danger. I think it is better to learn about basic electrics and learn whether one is confident to understand want one wants to achieve or decide to leave it to someone who does. Of course basic electrics is not only about mains voltage, as even battery operated things have basic electrics in them. Better to be advised not to do a wrong wiring configuration than try one your not sure of, as even batteries can cause things to get hot and burn.

Regards Nick.

Len Morris 213/07/2020 20:42:37
17 forum posts

Well, my original post made with the best intention, proved to be force 9 on the Richter scale! Obviously if you can't wire a 13 amp plug then don't mess with the job and don't even consider going anywhere near 3 phase!

The concept of "Basic Electrics" as a forum suggestion was not intended to be about a battery, switch and light bulb circuit. Perhaps a better name might be "Vintage Electrics".

All my machines are packed full of 40 year old switch gear designed to withstand a nuclear a blast. (Siemens, Klockner-Moeller, GEC Alsthom etc.). They are all fully serviceable unlike today's sealed units. The trick is knowing how they dismantle. I wouldn't look for this information under an "Electronics" label.

How about wiring an E-stop circuit full of NC / NO switches or wiring a rotary switch with 24 possible connections. Again, nothing to do with "Electronics".

Anyway, enough said.

JasonB13/07/2020 20:52:27
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Moderator
18323 forum posts
2024 photos
1 articles

I'm not one for having masses of forum topics, everyone thinks they are a good idea when suggested then get used for a couple of weeks before there is little activity. Chances are 90% will get posted in general discussions or beginners questions anyway and the rest probably in machine tools or electronics.

XD 35113/07/2020 21:02:31
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1430 forum posts
1 photos

I know that a local electronics mag has had issues with publishing projects that use mains power or control mains powered items , they have ample warnings throughout any published project warning of the dangers of mains power and the usual warning telling the reader that if they don’t know what they are doing with mains power get someone who is to wire it or at least check it before use- It is becoming more and more of a legal minefield !
I don’t see any problems as long as it mainly concerning electrical work after the wall plug and not how to re wire your workshop !

You could also add basic electronics into this thread to cover things like wiring stepper motors and drives , digital tachometers and Arduino/ microcontroller stuff.

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