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Selling on behalf of executors in 1975

Are workshops fuller today?

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SillyOldDuffer12/07/2020 13:46:02
5938 forum posts
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Posted by Ady1 on 12/07/2020 10:51:37:
Posted by Oven Man on 12/07/2020 10:14:35:

Does anybody know how much a basic Myford Super 7 would have cost in 1959?

Peter

Got this from 1953

myford1.jpg

edit: You often had to "send for a current price list" back in them days, the adverts had no price

I think the ML7 priced £48 5s 6d 'with standard equipment' didn't include a motor.

Best of all is those sums in £sd. If an ML7 costs £48 5s cash, how much does it cost to take advantage of 'our well-known out of income terms'? ie £12 2s 0d plus 12 payments of 68/7.

My first answer was £4 9s 0d. Wrong by ten bob! Borrowing a pound while subtracting shillings I forgot there are 20s to the pound, not 10.

In 1953 the average wage was £9 5s 0d for a 45 hour week (more than half the population were paid less). So an ML7 cost roughly a months wages, about £1950 today. Have to be careful comparing money over time though, because values shift. In 1953 the average house cost £2750, so a cash down ML7 was roughly equivalent to £2600 today, plus cost of motor. The same lathe with stand and motor was £74 or about £4350. Not cheap!!!

Curious that supporters of feet, inches and lbs don't want to return to old money despite £sd having exactly the same advantages as Imperial Measure. My theory; having painfully learned a difficult system, people don't have the energy to learn another, even when the alternative is easier...

devil

Dave

V8Eng12/07/2020 13:52:10
1447 forum posts
28 photos
Posted by magpie on 12/07/2020 09:09:

I remember the days when even a heater and carpets were 'extras' in most cars. sad

Now a spare wheel is quite often an expensive extra, unless you are happy to fiddle with a little compressor and can of stuff on a cold, wet and windy night.

Edited By V8Eng on 12/07/2020 13:54:15

Dave Halford12/07/2020 14:34:36
804 forum posts
8 photos
Posted by Jim Young 2 on 12/07/2020 12:42:18:

Re Advert......A J Reeve & Co still seem to be trading all these years later, but at a rather different address. Google street view suggests that the old location might have been redeveloped. Company current trading name suggests perhaps a financial hiatus at the turn of the century, but they still seem to be here, not many that that is true of!

Note the name change - the Holly Lane lot ( helpful blokes in brown cow gowns) ceased trading.

Nick Clarke 312/07/2020 14:59:09
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812 forum posts
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Posted by Dave Halford on 12/07/2020 14:34:36:
Posted by Jim Young 2 on 12/07/2020 12:42:18:

Re Advert......A J Reeve & Co still seem to be trading all these years later, but at a rather different address. Google street view suggests that the old location might have been redeveloped. Company current trading name suggests perhaps a financial hiatus at the turn of the century, but they still seem to be here, not many that that is true of!

Note the name change - the Holly Lane lot ( helpful blokes in brown cow gowns) ceased trading.

A. J. Reeves moved to Holly Lane Marston Green in the early 1970s, when the shop was redeveloped, some time after the death of John Reeves and the business had been taken over by Alex Farmer and David Piddington.

Although advertising themselves as Reeves 2000 the company name is still A.J.Reeves Ltd and now operates from rural premises near Twycross Zoo. I was there earlier this week and they are now just as helpful, if not more so than I remember the 'Holly Lane lot' being.

Oven Man12/07/2020 20:08:51
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60 forum posts
6 photos

Thanks Ady 1 for this. It makes you wonder how they did it for that price even in those days.

Peter

Oven Man12/07/2020 20:24:26
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6 photos
Posted by Samsaranda on 12/07/2020 12:04:49:

The ad lists a “monodex sheet metal cutter” how many readers remember or owned one of these, it was a very crude shearing device which was extraordinarily hard on your hands to use, I had one and during a recent workshop reorganisation I came across it, surprising how many gimmicky tools there were on the market then.
Dave W

I've still got one of these. Haven't used it for years but it has had a lot of use in times gone by.

Peter

Howard Lewis12/07/2020 22:02:24
3394 forum posts
2 photos

Somewhere there should be a Monodex in among my stuff.

Shan't look to hard for it; the blisters healed long ago!

Howard

Mark Rand12/07/2020 22:58:24
900 forum posts
5 photos

Dad's ML7B long bed, with clutch, three jaw and four jaw chucks and brazed carbide tools cost £168/10/5d in January 1965.

It got close to causing a divorce, since he added it on to the mortgage for the new house without consulting with mum. The house was £2000. I still have the lathe...

Hopper13/07/2020 02:12:41
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4654 forum posts
101 photos
Posted by Oven Man on 12/07/2020 20:08:51:

Thanks Ady 1 for this. It makes you wonder how they did it for that price even in those days.

Peter

If you look objectively at the Myford it becomes obvious they were built down to a price. Flat bed for easy machining. Mazak pot metal casting for all ancillaries such as motorising unit, apron, covers etc. But some quite clever design features that helped it punch above its weight. Plus the skilled workers were paid a pittance (and lived in 'ole in middle o' road). When released in 1946 it sold for about 5 quid less than the old M-type it eventually replaced.

Nigel McBurney 113/07/2020 09:01:04
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717 forum posts
3 photos

Did those prices in those days after the war include purchase tax? that dreaded variable rate tax. My Ml7 in 1968 was listed as £82 basic spec ie no motor and only supplied with faceplate,catchplate,and centres and 3 spanners and oil gun,not sure about a backplate,by the time I bought the motor ,3 & 4 jaw chucks ,tailstock chuck, plus some other bits the cost was £120 exactly the same as a basic super seven. Skilled wages were around £20 per week gross in the south of england. I also rode in motor cycle trials at the time and a Greeves alloy cylinder barrel and head to improve the performance of the iron barrelled Villiers 250 engine cost cost over £50 so I thought the Myford lathes were very good value at the time.

Hopper13/07/2020 09:12:25
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4654 forum posts
101 photos

No idea about the dreaded tax. But your figures make for an interestng comparison. 120 quid for Ml7 with basic motor, chucks and steadies when wages were 20 quid a week. So six weeks' wages.

With today's average wage at 500 quid a week that would be equivalent to 3,000 quid today. Still not cheap. And more than double what youd pay for a Seig SC4 or similar. And way more than a minilathe. 

The youth of today dont know how good they've got it.

Edited By Hopper on 13/07/2020 09:17:51

Nick Clarke 313/07/2020 10:24:10
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812 forum posts
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When this thread started I looked up the blue collar wage in 1975 and found it quoted as £48 or thereabouts on several sites. so taking todays average wage of £500 as the equivalent then a factor of 10 looks good - so a bare ML7 in 1975 at about £120 becomes £1200 - perhaps a bit low if these machines were still in production.

But there are two factors to consider - the cost of production which nowadays would involve CNC and less skilled and hence less well paid production workers and the easy availability then of quality castings and other materials. CNC machinery is a considerable expense to the manufacturer, but software and computer updates may give it a shorter useful life - compare this with the late John Stevenson who maintained that the machine that ground the beds of the latest Myford lathes was the same one that produced his 1947 model.

The second factor in looking at inflation is to consider what job role compares with what. A manual turner today would not be as common and may be seen a a more skilled technician and so not have the same status and pay as his previous counterpart ie he may be a specialist and paid as such.

In a different context, classic camera collecting, it seems to have become accepted that similar wage/price comparisons have no real meaning and I suspect that may be true with machine tools too.

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 13/07/2020 10:24:52

Nicholas Farr13/07/2020 11:27:39
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2318 forum posts
1137 photos

Hi, the earliest P60 that I still have is 1979 which indicates that my weekly pay average (before stoppages) was £101.129, so trending downwards I think in 1975, I was earning around the £50.00 mark, which puts it in the bracket that Nick Clarke 3 has pointed out.

Regards Nick.

larry phelan 113/07/2020 13:04:13
769 forum posts
14 photos

In the late 50,s I was unable to afford a basic 1/4" hand drill, price £3 in Woolworts, since my "Wages" was £2-1-6d per week, no kidding. Now I have a shop full of stuff, mostly from a land across the sea, at a price I can afford.

Ah yes, Them were the days, no doubt about it !sad

Neil Wyatt13/07/2020 13:06:23
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Posted by JasonB on 12/07/2020 07:27:38:

I would also think that a lot of model engineers had little need of bigger industrial machines as the average models were also smaller, certainly a 4" and definately a 6" traction engine was a very rare item back in 1975. Now 4" is very common as well as the smaller prototypes in 6".

Most stationary engine designs are still based around a 9" max flywheel diameter which was a comfy fit in a Myford gap and still is. Loco wheels don't need a big capacity machine and cylinders van be done on the cross slide.

+1

Neil Wyatt13/07/2020 13:07:57
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Posted by Jim Young 2 on 12/07/2020 12:42:18:

Re Advert......A J Reeve & Co still seem to be trading all these years later, but at a rather different address. Google street view suggests that the old location might have been redeveloped. Company current trading name suggests perhaps a financial hiatus at the turn of the century, but they still seem to be here, not many that that is true of!

The original reeves went to the wall at the turn of the century, and were bought out by Anker Towbars as Reeves 2000, which is why they moved .

Neil

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