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Smart and Brown Sabel

General topic about my Sabel Lathe

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Jim Beagley03/06/2020 15:10:39
103 forum posts
52 photos

I am in the process of improving my S&B Sabel lathe.
Ive owned it for a while but have recently acquired a second knackered machine to scavenge from.

This thread will follow the general exploits of this process starting with the new lathe cabinet.
Here is a photo of the amazing cast alloy S&B logo from the cabinet to get going.
Hope there is something of interest to members as I go along.
Jim

Cabinet Plate 1
Cabinet Plate 2

Edited By Jim Beagley on 03/06/2020 15:11:30

Brian Wood03/06/2020 16:32:07
2289 forum posts
37 photos

I also own one of these nice lathes Jim, mine didn't have the cabinet so it is mounted on the bench.

I shall follow your story with interest

Regards Brian

Jim Beagley06/06/2020 07:14:27
103 forum posts
52 photos

I have red oxided the cabinet now and it’s looking good.
I have chosen to try and match the existing colour of the lathe although I am fairly sure it’s not an original colour. It’s a rather nice turquoise blue, whereas I believe S&B painted there’s a green colour.
anyhow, I’ve gone for a tractol colour which seems to be a popular paint.
I have now swapped out a few parts from the donor lathe, including the forward/reverse switch (mine was missing), associated bracket and the handle.
Although I had a handle it was missing the centre and forward/off/reverse plates.

So here’s a question: the plates on the machine are rivetted on with what look like nickel

or plated rivets, but they are blind as there’s no sign of them on the inside.
How does one replace these little rivets? I want to remove and recondition the plates but don’t want to be stuck with irremoveable rivets.

John Baron06/06/2020 08:05:17
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339 forum posts
142 photos

Hi Jim,

Grab them with a pair of sharp side cutters and twist them out like a screw. If you don't damage them too much you can just knock them back in when you are ready.

Martin Connelly06/06/2020 09:01:47
avatar
1522 forum posts
171 photos

They are drive screw rivets. Plenty on the internet.

Martin C

Jim Beagley06/06/2020 19:38:40
103 forum posts
52 photos

So quite a lot of progress today.
the cabinet was primed and now has the final colour. I’m still undecided if I like it The intention was to match the colour that the lathe is currently but it’s come out a little blue. Having said that, I’ve been cleaning a few of the castings today (start of the strip down) and when clean the paint isn’t a bad match.
Anyhow, what do you guys think of the colour?

Cabinet in Red Oxide
Cabinet in Tractol
ive also prepped and etch-primed a few parts.
buggered if I could get any of those rivets out though ...

Castings prepped
Castings in Etch Primer
the S&B logo looks great, but it was a bugger to clean, a bugger to prime and I’m sure a bugger to finish

John Baron06/06/2020 20:31:07
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339 forum posts
142 photos
Posted by John Baron on 06/06/2020 08:05:17:

Hi Jim,

Grab them with a pair of sharp side cutters and twist them out like a screw. If you don't damage them too much you can just knock them back in when you are ready.

Jim you need to use the type that cut flush ! You also need to apply enough pressure so that you can twist the rivet, once you have done that they will be slightly proud of the surface and you can then get under them and they pop out like pulling teeth !

Jim Beagley07/06/2020 11:14:48
103 forum posts
52 photos

A bit of a shame but I’ve decided I don’t really like my colour choice.

Bugger secret

Meunier07/06/2020 19:25:29
371 forum posts
5 photos
Posted by Jim Beagley on 07/06/2020 11:14:48:

A bit of a shame but I’ve decided I don’t really like my colour choice.

Bugger secret

Still, you have got a nice under-coat to start from !
DaveD

Jim Beagley07/06/2020 19:53:22
103 forum posts
52 photos
Posted by Meunier on 07/06/2020 19:25:29:
Posted by Jim Beagley on 07/06/2020 11:14:48:

A bit of a shame but I’ve decided I don’t really like my colour choice.

Bugger secret

Still, you have got a nice under-coat to start from !
DaveD

Haha. This cloud has an expensive silver lining? And of course I’ve only used 1/3 of the tin of paint.
I’m led to believe that the original S&B colour is called Reseda Green.
Tractol do this colour which is probably my safest bet.

Brian Wood07/06/2020 20:19:56
2289 forum posts
37 photos

I thought the blue looked rather well, but I am not there in your shop, it might be quite different in the flesh.

Regards Brian

Martin Connelly07/06/2020 20:21:51
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1522 forum posts
171 photos

RAL 6011 Reseda Green is also known as machinery green. Used all over the place.

Martin C

Jim Beagley07/06/2020 21:39:59
103 forum posts
52 photos

The blue looked pretty OK on the cabinet Brian but on the lathe it looks a bit like a fairground ride

Reseda green I think it will have to be.
Tractol only do gloss - is that going to be ok on the lathe do you think?
Also, the interior parts of the lathe are a maroon or red. Any ideas what this colour could be? Oddly, it comes off in my (non solvent) parts washer so it’s not much good whatever it is.

Jim

Edited By Jim Beagley on 07/06/2020 21:40:35

Brian Wood08/06/2020 09:15:59
2289 forum posts
37 photos

Hello Jim

Gloss finish is I think the way to go, it wipes clean and does not hold dirt in the same way as a matt finish that begins to look grubby almost immediately I am familiar with Tractol paint, it is good hard wearing stuff that has to endure agricultural demands.

The internal parts on my Sabel are just in red oxide primer, nothing fancy. I don't think that detracts from the outer and visible finish which is 'silver' paint that I was told, when I bought the lathe, was a commercial paint that is used on elevators. It is certainly durable

Regards Brian

Edited By Brian Wood on 08/06/2020 09:18:16 for punctuation and a better layout.

Edited By Brian Wood on 08/06/2020 09:38:29

Jim Beagley11/06/2020 21:57:05
103 forum posts
52 photos

I told myself I was only going to clean it and give it a lick of paint, but the Sabel is now in a hundred pieces in the process of being stripped and cleaned.

The spindle is not too bad, but the rear (smaller) bearing has had some bit of rubbish in there at some point and has a score line along with the spindle. Do I just need to stone it, or leave it alone now?

Rear Bearing

Spindle Rear Bearing

I have to do the saddle and gearbox. The bed was cleaned tonight. Loads of bits.
Is it worth replacing the rear thrust bearing? I seems fine to me.

Lastly, anyone know of a source for the oiler felt? Mine has definitely seen better days. Lots of the oil ways were pretty blocked, so I think this strip down was worth the trouble - mind you, I've not finished yet.

Oiler Felt

Oh, and I still cannot budge those stupid hammer-in rivets. Bah.

Parts waiting paint

Martin Connelly11/06/2020 22:04:32
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1522 forum posts
171 photos

Check if the drive rivets are in through holes. If so knock them out from behind. There may be a build up of filler or paint behind them.

Martin C

Jim Beagley11/06/2020 22:11:05
103 forum posts
52 photos
Posted by Martin Connelly on 11/06/2020 22:04:32:

Check if the drive rivets are in through holes. If so knock them out from behind. There may be a build up of filler or paint behind them.

Martin C

Good point. I’ll look for that. Thanks.

Pete Rimmer12/06/2020 06:01:17
811 forum posts
50 photos
Posted by Jim Beagley on 11/06/2020 21:57:05:e.

Lastly, anyone know of a source for the oiler felt? Mine has definitely seen better days. Lots of the oil ways were pretty blocked, so I think this strip down was worth the trouble - mind you, I've not finished yet.

 

Oh, and I still cannot budge those stupid hammer-in rivets. Bah.

 

Jim, you'll find the felts for the Southbend 9" lathe will fit it. Loads of those available.

Hammer-drive rivets I lift using old feeler gauges to get them unseated at first.

Edited By Pete Rimmer on 12/06/2020 06:05:48

Jim Beagley12/06/2020 07:58:23
103 forum posts
52 photos
Posted by Pete Rimmer on 12/06/2020 06:01:17:

Jim, you'll find the felts for the Southbend 9" lathe will fit it.

Thanks Pete. I see lots of suppliers in the US. Anyone in the UK you’d recommend?

Brian Wood12/06/2020 10:23:02
2289 forum posts
37 photos

Jim,

The 'damage' on the spindle seems superficial to me although I would use a stone or well worn smooth flat file to remove any peaks that are present. The corresponding bearing looks OK and I would leave it severely alone.

The thrust bearing can be washed out in kerosene, the two thrust washers will tell you by the polish marks the balls have made if they are in good condition. If all that is satisfactory I suggest you re-use it. Boxford may also stock the felts, they too copied the Southbend lathe in their clones.

Before you rebuild the lathe it might pay you to look at the condition of the 4 step pulley on the countershaft driven by the motor. I was plagued by belt slip for some time before I spotted that the grooves had worn into J shapes and the belt was running on the bottom. Like you I had a cannibalised machine that came with my purchase which still had the cast iron 4 step pulley for the lathe spindle. It wasn't very difficult to machine up a sleeve from aluminium so that it could be fitted in place of the worn version. I also had to re-cut the grooves in the motor pulley for the same reason, just to reshape the sides was enough in that case

Assembling the spindle again [holding the lubrication springs and felts down is helped a lot with needles through the drainage holes at the side of the bearings and makes that bit easy enough], but fiddling all the diameters into the right place to slide the spindle home will test the patience of a saint. Do make sure you have everything in the right place when you do so, you really only want to endure the experience once and once only!

Regards Brian

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