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Machine Tool Peripheral Hoists

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Martin Connelly30/05/2020 23:28:33
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1369 forum posts
159 photos

Current rules for lifting equipment is that everytime is assembled it is to be examined by a qualified independent inspector before it is put into use. Good luck using one of these in industry now.

Martin C 

How often must lifting equipment and accessories be 
thoroughly examined? 
You must have lifting equipment thoroughly examined: 
■ before using it for the first time – unless the equipment has an EC Declaration 
of Conformity less than one year old and was not assembled on site. If it was 
assembled on site, it must be examined by a competent person to establish the 
assembly was correct and safe, eg a platform lift installed in a building; 
■ after assembly and before use at each location for equipment that requires 
assembly or installation before use, eg tower cranes

Edited By Martin Connelly on 30/05/2020 23:35:16

Hopper31/05/2020 01:06:34
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4530 forum posts
94 photos

I always thought a lathe was a piece of precision equipment, set up with precision levels and painstaking scraping to tenths of a thou to achieve Schlesinger limits etc.

Now we see it's a piece of heavy lifting equipment more like a tractor or front end loader or engine hoist at least.

Can it be both?

Robert Atkinson 231/05/2020 10:11:06
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644 forum posts
16 photos

I do note that the standard SkyHook tool post mount has a dovetail to fit directly on a large quick change toolpost. It is the youtuber (Adam Booth) who has had it modified to go in the slot of the tool holder.. The Dovetail mount is probably OK on a big lathe, but the tool slot with two set screws is just not an acceptable design. There is just too much leaverage trying to roll it out. As a minimun an adjustable "foot" opposite the lug that goes in tool post to react rolling forces into the cross slide or mill bed woud be a worthwhile improvement.

Robert G8RPI

Tim Hammond31/05/2020 12:36:56
22 forum posts
Posted by Hopper on 31/05/2020 01:06:34:

I always thought a lathe was a piece of precision equipment, set up with precision levels and painstaking scraping to tenths of a thou to achieve Schlesinger limits etc.

Now we see it's a piece of heavy lifting equipment more like a tractor or front end loader or engine hoist at least.

Can it be both?

I confess that those were pretty much my thoughts when I watched the video.

Cornish Jack31/05/2020 17:29:27
1121 forum posts
159 photos

Just noticed this thread.

The photos below show a bodge modification I made to an ex-car hoist for mobility scooters.I had to do a bit of rewiring and incorporating a transformer power supply (RS variable output). The base is 7" x 7" x 1/4" steel with corner holes for attachment. Original s.w.l. was, apparently, 160kgs (?) so probably OK for chucks etc. Not sure if I'll get round to installing it.

img_0114a.jpg

img_0115a.jpg

rgds

Bill

Clive Foster31/05/2020 18:07:37
2204 forum posts
73 photos

Nice job Bill.

My feeling is that something of that ilk fitted to a work cart would be far more generally useful than something that needs to be specifically set up for each job. Sufficient reach to handle a lathe chuck or vice - dividing head - rotary table on the mill should be no problem.

On a rolling cart it also becomes very useful for the "really a two man lift" or "20 (30 in my case) years ago I'd have lifted it no problem" things. Several backs of envelopes and a couple or three years into the thinking I'm reckoning that something very similar with folding jib to get things out of the way when the cart is normal use and using my battery impact gun as the power source is plausible way to go.

In a practical world 150 lb or so lift ought to be plenty. A tolerance ring can make a nice emergency overload clutch.

As usual with like to have, rather than need it now, jobs feature creep and design refinements are getting in the way of do-it now. Fact is if I knew I wanted one on Thursday it would be done tomorrow. But for now I keep noodling.

Clive

ChrisB31/05/2020 18:25:28
493 forum posts
190 photos
Posted by Martin Connelly on 30/05/2020 23:28:33:

Current rules for lifting equipment is that everytime is assembled it is to be examined by a qualified independent inspector before it is put into use. Good luck using one of these in industry now.

Martin C

How often must lifting equipment and accessories be
thoroughly examined?
You must have lifting equipment thoroughly examined:
■ before using it for the first time – unless the equipment has an EC Declaration
of Conformity less than one year old and was not assembled on site. If it was
assembled on site, it must be examined by a competent person to establish the
assembly was correct and safe, eg a platform lift installed in a building;
■ after assembly and before use at each location for equipment that requires
assembly or installation before use, eg tower cranes

Edited By Martin Connelly on 30/05/2020 23:35:16

At work we use various kinds of lifting equipment but was not aware an inspector was required everytime a lifting equipment was set up for use. The only requirement I can think of is the yearly inspection and certification, 6 months if used to lift persons.

Martin Connelly31/05/2020 19:33:49
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1369 forum posts
159 photos

I had to have a working knowledge of LOLER, PUWER and PED at work. This bit was a relatively recent addition. It caught quite a few people out where I worked when I pointed it out.

Martin C

Cornish Jack31/05/2020 22:33:43
1121 forum posts
159 photos

Thank you Clive.

Your suggestion re. the rolling cart is a 'bulleye'! Even I ought to be able to rig up something suitable. The obvious potential 'gotcha' is the counterbalancing but I shall consider ... and, no doubt, procrastinate!

rgds

Bill

ChrisB01/06/2020 14:31:39
493 forum posts
190 photos

Thanks Martin, I'll point this out to our H&S guy

Clive Foster01/06/2020 15:38:58
2204 forum posts
73 photos

Bill

Considering the seemingly "permanent" contents of my work cart counterbalancing oughtn't be a problem for me. If more than half the top tray is clear I hear muted screams of "turn off the light". Two shelves and three drawers in addition to the top tray are seriously tempting. My version of Pooh Bears "useful pot to put things in". Appropriate I guess as Ashdown Forest is only a couple or three miles away.

Seriously a paving slab bolted underneath at the opposite end and a bit of orientation intelligence in use should suffice.

One thing that has hung me up over the design is wanting a longer jib so the crane can be used extended over the cart if anything hefty has to be lifted. But then it needs an extra fold so the hook can be set close in when working away from the cart. Do-able but I'd rather not have a 3 ft double pole sticking up on one corner. Then there is the controlled adjustment needed so whats been lifted can be dropped on the cart. Overthing, yup.

Clive

thaiguzzi01/06/2020 16:28:28
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696 forum posts
131 photos
Posted by Tim Hammond on 28/05/2020 12:49:51:

Last evening I watched a video on YouTube posted by Adam Booth (Abom 79 ) where he described and demonstrated a hoist he's just acquired called a "Sky Hook", used to assist in the mounting and demounting of lathe chucks, milling vices &c. on machine tools. It's safe working load is 500 lb, and it was mounted on the toolpost of his Monarch lathe. It occurred to me that this set up imposes a very high load on the toolpost,, enough probably to affect the integrity and accuracy of the machine. Many of the comments posted beneath the video echoed these concerns. Has anyone else seen this video? If so, would they care to share their thoughts?

Dont you start over this side of the pond as well! smile d

This has nearly started WW III over at the Home Shop Machinist forum...

Andrew Evans01/06/2020 16:38:02
316 forum posts
8 photos

Adam Booth talks about the forces generated when taking 1/2 inch cuts in steel on his Monarch - has anyone got an idea of what they would be and how they would compare to the toolpost mounted Skyhook?

Edited By Andrew Evans on 01/06/2020 16:38:41

Martin Connelly01/06/2020 18:29:27
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1369 forum posts
159 photos

I'm not going to say if this hoist mounting is a good or bad design but as regards the forces acting on the tool I think there are probably examples of bent tools that give some indication of the potential forces from large cuts. It should be quite easy to work out the force required to bend a 12mm square steel bar stuck out 50mm for example.

Martin C

thaiguzzi02/06/2020 03:03:18
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696 forum posts
131 photos
Posted by Tim Hammond on 28/05/2020 12:49:51:

Last evening I watched a video on YouTube posted by Adam Booth (Abom 79 ) where he described and demonstrated a hoist he's just acquired called a "Sky Hook", used to assist in the mounting and demounting of lathe chucks, milling vices &c. on machine tools. It's safe working load is 500 lb, and it was mounted on the toolpost of his Monarch lathe. It occurred to me that this set up imposes a very high load on the toolpost,, enough probably to affect the integrity and accuracy of the machine. Many of the comments posted beneath the video echoed these concerns. Has anyone else seen this video? If so, would they care to share their thoughts?

Double post.

Edited By thaiguzzi on 02/06/2020 03:04:26

Hopper02/06/2020 04:07:51
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4530 forum posts
94 photos

I like the counterbalanced cart idea, taking the strain off the carriage and toolpost. But it does rather put me in mind of this kind of thing:

crane fail.jpg

Cornish Jack02/06/2020 09:36:15
1121 forum posts
159 photos

Clive - Thank you again for the 'mental nudge' re. counter-balance mounting. I have just the sort of thing you describe - ex commercial, foldable metal trolley on casters, covered with 'come-in-handy' items of considerable weight. Managed to 'clear a 7" x 7" space in the top shelf corner and the swivel boom swings to stay within the trolley outline. Sorted!

Once I get it bolted down, I'll take a piccie.

rgds

Bill

Nicholas Farr02/06/2020 10:55:23
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2262 forum posts
1099 photos

Hi, just for information, thorough examinations and inspections for lifting equipment can be seen at Examination and Inspection for lifting equipment in the work place. Of course, one should always inspect any lifting equipment before use, regardless whether it has a current certificate or if it was OK yesterday, and this can be done by anyone competent to do so. Places of work using lifting gear should give you training how to use them correctly and how to inspect them for operational use.

Regards Nick.

Nicholas Farr02/06/2020 11:11:52
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2262 forum posts
1099 photos

Hi, in my old job, they had a Colchester 1800 Mastiff that they discontinued from use and were looking to sell it, I was asked to find out how it was supposed to be moved, so I found the user manual and in it said to bolt the plate that was supplied to the bed (which was a short distance in front of the chuck past the removable gap piece) and lift by the eye bolt adjusting the saddle and tailstock to balance. The plate was about 30mm thick by 300/350mm long, from memory. I found the plate and put it with the lathe with the user manual, but I had left the company before it got sold or moved.

Regards Nick.

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