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A polite note to beginners from ARC

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Daniel21/05/2020 07:24:45
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333 forum posts
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.... And, before Neil or Jason run off to their boudoirs in tears, I didn't forget you. heart

It's relatively early, and my single cell, that passes for a brain, was focused on the

defence of ARC.

The sentiments I gave expression to, apply equally to you two.

Have a good day everybody .....

ATB,

Daniel

Andrew Johnston21/05/2020 07:59:04
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5828 forum posts
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Posted by Dr_GMJN on 20/05/2020 22:31:05:

The thing about engineering is that it seems to be a discipline that's populated by many who for some reason feel inclined, or even entitled, to dispense with social niceties even at the best of times.

It would appear that the same can be said of some of those who are, presumably, not engineers.

Andrew

Daniel21/05/2020 08:09:42
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Posted by Andrew Johnston on 21/05/2020 07:59:04:
Posted by Dr_GMJN on 20/05/2020 22:31:05:

The thing about engineering is that it seems to be a discipline that's populated by many who for some reason feel inclined, or even entitled, to dispense with social niceties even at the best of times.

It would appear that the same can be said of some of those who are, presumably, not engineers.

Andrew

Have I upset you, Andrew ....devil

Andrew Johnston21/05/2020 08:27:56
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5828 forum posts
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Posted by Daniel on 21/05/2020 08:09:42:

Have I upset you, Andrew ....devil

Not in the least. My response was to the quoted text, not to your posts.

Andrew

Daniel21/05/2020 09:16:16
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333 forum posts
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Phew .... That's a relief laughlaugh

This kind of thread does nothing for one's paranoia either laughlaugh

thaiguzzi21/05/2020 10:48:37
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703 forum posts
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Very nice OP, concur with all that was said.

In fact i'll also go one further; i don't understand why people buy stuff off Ebay when it comes from China, and you are saving $2 but you're not sure of the quality. $200 ok, but $2 or even $20 on a larger order/item?

I've always been the type to support your local business, and bricks and mortar businesses, that actually pay business rates, have real life employees, and occupy proper commercial premises, not working from your spare bedroom...

Back in my day...., sorry i'll stop ranting....

Leo F Byrne 121/05/2020 11:22:56
6 forum posts

I have always had complete satisfaction from Arc and have found Ketan and his company very helpful. Their products are of a very good standard and I will order from them in preference to any other firm . Although there are of course other reputable suppliers, Arc seem to go the extra mile. Leo

Circlip21/05/2020 12:14:17
1218 forum posts

Never had to deal with ARC, but met Keetan once at "Arrowgate", Question, "Would you buy a used car from him"? Definitely not! (I'd probably buy two).

And for those who found Sir John an abrasive cantankerous old s*d? His history in ingineering and problem solving gave him the right to call many, "Clumsy B*****d"

From another abrasive cantankerous old Yorkshire s*d who would also describe a spade as a spade and not the "Politically correct" a device for generating holes in the ground.

 

Regards Ian.

Pity that one company that used to advertise on here promoted MANY pages of dissatisfaction due to lack of honesty and integrity was tolerated by non exclusion for a Looooooong time.

Edited By Circlip on 21/05/2020 12:18:49

John Coates21/05/2020 12:44:42
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558 forum posts
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Posted by Ketan Swali on 20/05/2020 14:42:35:

"I have often seen long threads where many have helped, without any expectation of thanks, and then suddenly the receiver of the knowledge comes back in on another thread giving the impression that 'he knows everything' on a subject, and is suddenly in expert"

Aah the old Armchair Internet Warrior. They have multiplied like rats during lockdown in many of my forums (here, motorcycling) to add to those who were there before

sad

I've bought stuff from Arc (usually prompted by the Christmas catalogue coming with MEW) and from RDG and Chronos. All tooling and workshop equipment, no major machinery as I'd rather take my chances buying second hand stuff from eBay that I never see before parting with cash (did you get the irony there?). When retirement comes and the pension pot is accessible I will treat myself.

In reading their posts and articles I find Neil and Jason very knowledgeable and with a great willingness to teach and an ability to impart learning. Similarly from his posts and responses I find Ketan the same. Some degree of commercialism is to be expected when products have to be reviewed as very few of us have bottomless pockets. If they were not provided for free or on loan then there would be no reviews. Better to produce a series on machinery and equipment that the newbie could buy and start with than a hotch potch of old stuff that infest our workshops and sheds.

For anybody to criticise in the way that Ketan describes I personally find despicable and cowardly. But then I refer to my opening statement about AIW's - a plague on all their houses.

Well done Neil, Jason and Ketan for promoting and advancing our hobby

yes

John

Mike Poole21/05/2020 13:06:35
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2845 forum posts
67 photos

I like the way Ketan is prepared to share the reasoning behind what he does. I remember when he explained his reasoning for withdrawing from the show circuit, as much as I enjoy seeing the trade stands at shows the world has changed and now we can see detailed pictures and specifications with videos of equipment in action all online. I think we forget that many of the suppliers we use have other customers apart from the niche of the home workshop. Full marks from me to Ketan for indulging us with the interesting insights to the import business, unfortunately I had assembled most of my workshop and tooling before Arc entered the fray so my tool acquisition is mainly consumables and things that I develop a need for or just fancy but Arc are well up on my preferred supplier list.

Mike

Graham Meek21/05/2020 13:09:25
288 forum posts
207 photos

Ketan has in my experience always given good advice. Whether that advice is taken depends on the person it is directed at. I have known such good advice being shot down because of bias against ARC over some previous issue by a poster. Nine times out of ten the biased advice is somewhat dubious.

How do I know good advice?

Well 5 years as a Technical Apprentice at Dowty's. 30 years as a Toolmaker in jobbing shops and 10 years as Head of the Mechanical Workshops, The Oncology Centre, Cheltenham, has given me the Experience to know.

All that I have purchased from ARC has been of good quality and appropriate for the money paid. It cannot be easy trying to bring tooling and machinery to the market place at a price which people are prepared to pay.

I had better add that I too have never received any payments in kind, or otherwise, for any article written on behalf of ARC.

Regards

Gray,

Ketan Swali21/05/2020 16:06:49
1331 forum posts
106 photos
Posted by CHARLES lipscombe on 20/05/2020 23:59:16:

Nowadays I usually buy what are obviously ARC items from Ausee here in Australia, simply because that way I avoid horrendous postal charges from the UK. I would be interested to know what the link is between Ausee and ARC.

Hi Charles,

Steven Tao runs Ausee. He is the nephew of the General Manager of one of factories we work with under the SIEG Group. He was sent to ARC for training over a period of six months, before setting up shop in Melbourne.

Ketan at ARC

Ketan Swali21/05/2020 16:08:51
1331 forum posts
106 photos

Thank you all for your kind comments.

Reading all this now also makes me feel a little embarrassed and silly for creating this thread.

Initially my intentions were to just give polite advice to beginners to be respectful and grateful to the collective for freely sharing knowledge, rather than getting carried away as I did.

At the time of making the post, it felt good to release what I was thinking. However, after further discussions with one or two forum elders, Michael G in particular, and after reading some of the comments on here such as the thought presented by Hopper, I now have a better understanding of how things got miss-understood.

By the response, different from what I was expecting, I can see that I let my ego get the better of me by overthinking negative thoughts. A new lesson learned - thank you all. smiley

Ketan at ARC.

Howard Lewis21/05/2020 16:20:02
4143 forum posts
3 photos

Having read all the above, I have to agree with Ketan and the positive comments.

My justification for my far too many comments on the forum are: Time served, qualified Engineer. (Until 1958 had never seen, let alone handled a lathe or a Milling machine. It was some 25 years later that I next touched a milling machine, and another twenty before I got my first lathe. ) Probably, the high point was being involved in spending £3M a week on one commodity. Pride came before a fall; I was made redundant!

Consequently, although familiar with machining, very much as a spectator in Industry, I have things to learn, and thinking of those coming into the hobby, wish to help them.

Hence my total agreement with Ketan over advising newcomers to be aware of their limitations and not try to sprint before they can even walk, and to learn the absolute basics.

I have to say that I do tend to point prospective purchasers in the direction of ARC. The only gift that I have received from them was when Ian sent the last two batteries of a type that they had stopped stocking, when I returned the incorrect ones..

I admire John Stevenson. He was a good practical Engineer, who would find a solution to many problems that others would consider to be past recovery. How do I know? From his postings on the Forum and meeting him for a very few minutes, face to face.

My dealings with ARC have always been cordial. The service is good, and always friendly and helpful.

When I ordered a Vertical Slide, intending to fit it to my ETR BL12-24, I knew that it would require an adaptor. Ketan's response was "If it doesn't work out, as long as it is unmarked, send it back for a refund" AMAZINGLY fair! That is probably by far the biggest single purchase that I have ever made from ARC.

There was a long post by someone in Australia, who had problems with a lathe, not bought from ARC. Ketan still provide advice and support.

Ketan advises folk about setting preload on bearings; often on machines that ARC have not sold. He is happy to explain why his business trades in the way that it does. I know that he would rather not sell a machine that was unfit for the purchaser's purpose, rather than have a disillusioned customer complaining to all and sundry and costing further sales.l I think that that is an honest way to do business.

So Neil and Jason had a machine for free in return for a review? Carrying out all the checks, writing up the report and taking all the photographs will have taken so much longer, that paying a fraction of the commercial rate for such an investigation would vastly exceed the value of the machine. Often, as a result of such reviews, the feedback results in improvements to the machine in terms of "user friendliness", if not in performance, durability or reliability.

Time to stop rambling

Howard

SillyOldDuffer21/05/2020 16:36:14
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6681 forum posts
1501 photos
Posted by Ketan Swali on 21/05/2020 16:08:51:

...

Reading all this now also makes me feel a little embarrassed and silly for creating this thread.

...

At the time of making the post, it felt good to release what I was thinking. However, after further discussions with one or two forum elders, Michael G in particular, and after reading some of the comments on here such as the thought presented by Hopper, I now have a better understanding of how things got miss-understood.

...

A new lesson learned - thank you all. smiley

Ketan at ARC.

No need for an apology; it's not as if Greta Thunberg had been caught shooting baby Black Rhinos from a helicopter.

It's Hopper I feel sorry for. Can't believe he admitted on this Forum to having an Arts Degree!

It's worse than the man who asked for a Gin and Tonic in the Pump Room at Bath.

laugh

Dave

MC Black 224/05/2020 13:01:35
99 forum posts

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 20/05/2020 15:00:54:

I agree about beginners needing to read the series done by Jason and Neil. Perhaps the two authors could cash in and help beginners by publishing both series in booklet form?

That's a great idea.

MC Black

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