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Faircut lathe tidy up

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Jacob Leonidou02/07/2020 12:27:15
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49 forum posts
34 photos

Interesting find, Brian. Cant imagine why they would be there.

 

As for mine they seem to do a good job of wiping the ways. Im pretty sure i'd only have to find some felt material and cut it to shape.

 

More interestingly i made this today. Slowly learning different techniques and getting better overall. Also understanding depths a lot better. One thing i dont quite understand is why the tool takes another cut when im winding back out after the initial cut. If i take a cut, the tool shouldnt cut on the way back, should it?

83694413_215803022852439_7365408984196861335_n.jpgThis piece was to re engineer my table saw winding mechanism to use a purpose made crank instead of a re purposed pulley. It involved welding pieces together and turning to make the piece true. Drilling and tapping, chamfering, boring, facing and turning a shoulder. Absolutely love having this lathe.

Edited By Jacob Leonidou on 02/07/2020 12:28:36

Andy Carlson02/07/2020 13:39:15
260 forum posts
105 photos

Hi Jake,

There are a couple of reasons why it cuts on the way back.

The first is that the tool doesn't really make a flat surface - it's making a vee shaped cut either in a spiral when facing or like a very fine screw thread when turning. As you move back it's cutting the opposite handed thread or spiral and crossing over the ridges and furrows from the previous cut.

The second reason is a lack of rigidity in the lathe and tool. You won't see this much with 3/8 inch tools and light cuts but if you are, for example, using a skinny boring tool in a small hole then you will definitely find that you can make several passes in both directions and the tool will still be cutting. If you are not aware of it and assume that the dials are telling you 'the truth' then you can end up with quite a big deficit between what you think you have cut and what you have really cut.

Glad you are getting to like your lathe.

Brian Morehen02/07/2020 16:43:37
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94 forum posts
11 photos

Hi Jake

When you have made your cut switch your lathe off and then return the tool to the start of your cut and look for a strait line that you may have scrached .

On your return, I wonder if this is because your cutting tool needs more of a angle on and is the back edge causing the problem .Some finishing tools are rounded and some have very small flat on the cutting point that is rounded on the back side which gives a smooth finish

Pleased to see you are enjoying lathe and having fun with what you are doing

Have fun and enjoy yourself Brian

Jacob Leonidou07/07/2020 12:43:26
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49 forum posts
34 photos

Thanks Andy that made a lot of sense. I find it happens more wth deeper cuts, I don't notice it when im cutting a thou or two. It's not awful but at least I get it now.

Brian im thinking a tool suited for finishing might fix the problem. Something rounder that smudges out the threads.

Now I've got a question to ask and it is why does the large gear on the headstock spindle (the one that has the locking pin to engage/disengage the backgears) clunk when I turn the chuck back and forth quickly? It's like there is a degree of backlash that I can't remove from tightening the pin. It drives me nuts when the lathe is running as it's noisy. I removed the nut from the locking nut to see what was going on and it fell inside the gear. Luckily I fished it out with a magnet otherwise I would have been in a world of trouble. It's hard the describe but its the gear in the far right of the spindle next to the largest of the three pulleys.

Andy Carlson07/07/2020 13:17:46
260 forum posts
105 photos

The clunk is most likely from the locking peg on the bull gear (the big one near the chuck). It's a fairly loose fit in a slot in the big pulley casting. The nut just holds it in position on the gear, it has no effect on the part that is making the noise.

If it's really bugging you then you can take the spindle out and take all of the pulleys, collars and gears off it and then wrap some tape around the peg... or (more difficult) make new peg that fits better. I did this (the tape thing) for a while but now I've got used toit and it doesn't bother me.

If you do take it apart then take a photo before removing the peg - it has four possible orientations... only one of which is correct.

I'm not convinced that this part worked out as intended - it has tapers and curves on it which appear (to me) to be designed to make it easy to locate and then provide a snug fit and avoid the clunking. The trouble is that if you refit it so that the tapers and curves 'make sense' then you will probably find that the peg can't be fully disengaged once the spindle is reassembled. I'm sure you can guess how I know this.

Andy Carlson07/07/2020 13:26:57
260 forum posts
105 photos

BTW, hopefully you know this but when engaging direct drive after using the backgear you need to find the little notch in the rim of the big pulley and line it up with the nut on the bull gear. Also check that the peg is moving all the way to the end of the slot (there may be crud in the slot).

It will still clunk though

Brian Morehen07/07/2020 18:10:03
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94 forum posts
11 photos

Hi Jake

Had the same problem years ago took me a long time before I found out what and where the problem was , Once I made a replacment . all piece and quiet no clunk klick clackety clak another job for you.

Good Luck enjoy your lathe

Brian

Jacob Leonidou08/07/2020 12:59:20
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49 forum posts
34 photos

Interesting, Andy. I don't think I want to pull it all apart just yet and I certainly don't want to do that after just reassembling it all only to find out I did it wrong (I feel your pain). I did infact work out that the pin has to slot into the pulley otherwise it doesn't lock. I noticed this when I was frantically trying to work out how to put the peg after realising it had not fully locked the gear. My question is can you not just spin the peg around to find the right orientation? Or am I missing something?

Brian I did the same thing. I spent a long time tapping everything to find the noise. I don't know why it clunks while its spinning, centrifical force should keep it to one side of its slot. Ill have to deal with the click clack for now.

Jacob Leonidou08/07/2020 13:06:22
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49 forum posts
34 photos

I wanted to share a few things I made.

I converted this old table saw from a door knob twist height adjuster to a proper crank handle. Lathe was so handy as I made a tight sleeve to go over the shaft which then uses a set screw to lock on. Even used the lathe to drill through the wooden dowel. Got to learn a lot about drilling and boring, although I think my tailstock is still out as my drillbits tend to 'orbit' when im drilling holes on the large side.

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This is the new belt tensioner to replace the old one that was making that much noise I couldn't hear the lathe rotate. 107590801_580296339512562_2306813154290893693_n (1).jpg106279683_3233511523358629_6769114184429982558_n.jpg

Andy Carlson08/07/2020 19:52:57
260 forum posts
105 photos

Good to see that you are getting useful work from your lathe Jake.

On my lathe the part of the peg that goes through the bull gear slot is square so once the spindle is assembled you can't reposition it.

I found a couple of photos of the bull gear, peg and the end of the pulley. As you can see the slot in the pulley is not a precision thing. This is what the peg is rattling in.

p1060943.jpg
p1060945.jpg

Regards, Andy

Jacob Leonidou09/07/2020 12:05:44
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49 forum posts
34 photos

Very interesting. Im glad you could post pics as it wasn't easy to imagine what it looked like on the inside by feel alone. I now understand why it was so damn hard to locate to slot. The only difference is that my peg is round with a square end, meaning it can not only be rotated while assembled, but it can also be dropped inside the pulley and lost forever. Luckily I managed to fish it out with a magnet, which was some of my finest work if you ask me.

I can't understand how it rattles. Once located in the slot it has force applied on one side only when the lathe is rotating. The nut is done up really tight so that the peg can't move, and the centurial force would keep it in place (theoretically). Mine rattles like the peg is completely loose.

Andy Carlson09/07/2020 13:23:18
260 forum posts
105 photos

Take it to bits then. You know you want to

If and when you do decide to do that, take it slowly and carefully and be prepared to chicken out, reassemble and allow more time for thinking. You will probably have burrs on the shaft and slightly damaged threads that stop things coming off as intended. Also 'follow' the shaft as you push it out with a suitable piece of bar. This will catch the thrust bearing and its washers and prevent them vanishing into some dark recess.

On the plus side, once you've taken it out once it becomes a lot easier to do it again.

Brian Morehen09/07/2020 18:25:17
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94 forum posts
11 photos

Hi Jake

Yours and Andy ,s Different to the Junior Lathe this peg can be completly removed by just removeing the nut yes the slot in the gear is oblong the same as mine the peg has been made from 3/8 round bar and has had all of the flats milled to fit a slow time consumeing job when it is only 10m to start with and is only 18m long ,well worth the work when finished .

Regards Brian

Jacob Leonidou13/07/2020 12:59:57
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49 forum posts
34 photos

Oh yes I do want to take it apart. But as with most things I take apart, it equals significant downtime. Good tip with the bar and thrust bearing. Im pretty keen to take the spindle out so I can check the bearings. Would like to take measurements so that I can potentially make new ones, I think it needs some. It's funny how much you learn taking something apart.

Out of curiosity did you ever find that you tail stock was skewed? Ive aligned it (or I think I have) side to side as well as up and down yet it still seems to orbit the drillbit. I don't know if I shouldn't be using standard length drillbits but they tend to orbit, especially when using larger sizes.

Thanks

Brian Morehen13/07/2020 16:09:26
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94 forum posts
11 photos


I always use a centre drill to start then a small pilot hole a gradually open the hole up , tis seems to work fine for me ,

I think the drill tends to orbit or wobble when drilling with large size drills is because the point is probably not perfect .

I once had a number of motor armatures with 1/2 shafts that had sheared of and had to be drilled out these were centre drilled and a 15/32 New Morse taper drill used worked perfect. Used a Morse taper to cut out the the length of a drill and chuck which added length , The largest drill i have is 3/4 anything above that gets bored out.

Regards Brian

Andy Carlson13/07/2020 22:39:16
260 forum posts
105 photos

Hi Jake,

My tailstock certainly needed alignment when I first got the lathe. IIRC it was aiming low and off to one side.

I think it's pretty impossible to make it perfect in real use because it needs to reach across the cross slide so I usually find that I have quite a lot of the barrel sticking out, which naturally causes it to droop. Several things can help - once the tailstock is adjusted then most come down to maximising rigidity - less barrel sticking out, shorter drill, eliminate the chuck by using drills with integral Morse tapers (not sure how easy these are to buy but I have several from a garage clearance). Doing the barrel clamp up (without actually locking it) can help a bit too.

Probably the best bet is to make things as rigid as poss and then use the biggest possible centre drill to start the hole. If this is rigidly held then it should make a concentric hole even if the tailstock aim is off because it will work like a boring tool... but your description of 'orbiting' does not convey an impression of rigidity.

Bigger drills will be longer so rigidity becomes even more of a challenge so it's essential then to start the hole with something short and rigid.

I don't think I'd go up to a 3/4 drill in the tailstock on my lathe. As a very rough rule of thumb I would not rely on the taper to hold for any drills that are bigger than the opening of the taper itself. So 1/2 inch is the biggest I've used at that end of the lathe.

One more thing springs to mind... it's possible for the headstock alignment on the Faircut to be wrong. The headstock is held down by one bolt underneath in the middle. There is (should be) also a locating pin at the back of the headstock at the right hand end. If the pin is missing (mine is) then the whole headstock can rotate around the single fixing bolt especially when doing stuff that causes sideways force like milling. If the pin is present then the alignment should be constant... either always right or always wrong. You can check the alignment using a DTI (clock gauge) or better by making a test cut and then measuring to see if you made a parallel bar or a taper.

Regards, Andy

Jacob Leonidou21/07/2020 11:00:47
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49 forum posts
34 photos

So i seem to be cutting fine with centre drills, it's something i notice with larger diameter drillbits. I imagine it's because of the wider contact point, but i do think the tailstock might be skewed (if the headstock is not, ill have to check for said locking pin). I don't think there is any skew adjustment as the locking mechanism self centres it when tightened. It's a pity as i dont feel super confident drilling holes, but i can look into it a little more and potentially solve the problem.

My tooling arrived after waiting a month, but luckily i was refunded so i cant complain. Not bad quality for chinesium, im quite happy. Used some feeler gauges as shims and they look like they were made for them. After messing around with different combinations i got my centre height spot on. Also cut out the little shelf in the tool holder which is a pity as i wont be able to reposition as easily, but i had no choice. I also noticed that there are three different 'holes/dimples' on the top of the cross slide. Are these for set positioning? You might be able to see where i had used a 4mm drillbit to lock the toolpost into one of those holes.

109801148_205153814233622_9115832687361364179_n.jpg

110253716_211578746846183_2700513233468040494_n.jpg

I'm still not loving the surface finish. Experimented by doubling the speed and no great improvement. Am i doing something wrong by turning with the point at 90 degrees? Should i have it on a bit of an angle so it cuts with a softer radius? Or should i buy on of those circle insert finishing tools?

Brian Morehen21/07/2020 12:33:29
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94 forum posts
11 photos

Hi Jake.

Not quite clear how you can mill a slot in the end of a bar if held in the chuck , Yes you can mill a slot of centre if you use the mill in the chuck and clamp the bar to hight on your cross slide you can mill the slot where you want it .

Yes Glanze Tipped tools are great for getting a good finish

Good luck Brian

Andy Carlson21/07/2020 13:59:14
260 forum posts
105 photos

Hi Jake,

Have you tried grinding and using HSS cutting tools? I very rarely use carbide insert tooling and when I do they behave very differently from HSS. The usual advice is that carbide is for modern, fast, rigid machines. I use it only when trying to cut something difficult like cast iron or when I want to use my very long, thin boring tool.

I'm puzzled why you are having issues with your drills not going where you want them. If the centre drill is working OK then the point of your bigger drill should not be playing any part until you are a few mm deep... by which point the full width of the drill should be engaged so there should be no opportunity for it to wander.

Are you using a big enough centre drill? Another option is to step the drill size up gradually - the load on the drill is a function of cross sectional area so drilling, say, 7mm and then 10mm would share the work equally between the two drills. Don't pay too much attention to YouTube videos of bigger lathes that can dive straight in with a 1 inch drill.

Jacob Leonidou22/07/2020 07:49:16
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49 forum posts
34 photos
Posted by Brian Morehen on 21/07/2020 12:33:29:

Hi Jake.

Not quite clear how you can mill a slot in the end of a bar if held in the chuck , Yes you can mill a slot of centre if you use the mill in the chuck and clamp the bar to hight on your cross slide you can mill the slot where you want it .

Yes Glanze Tipped tools are great for getting a good finish

Good luck Brian

I was referring to Andy's milling attachment, brian. Check it out, it's pretty cool.

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