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Help required to select correct replacement Relay

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Dave Halford20/04/2020 10:13:18
1746 forum posts
19 photos

If RS fails you try Farnell

C T20/04/2020 10:25:21
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48 forum posts
3 photos
Posted by Dave Halford on 20/04/2020 10:13:18:

If RS fails you try Farnell

Morning Dave

I have also looked at Farnell and was unable to find a suitable replacement.

My not finding a suitable replacement is more than likely due to my lack of knowledge than anything else. All I have to go on is the pdf data sheet and me trying to match all the criteria of the original relay, not knowing what is critical and what's not. Perhaps the only feature I can be sure of is that the colour of the case is not critical. After saying that I bet someone will say how the colour is important for heat distribution and can be detrimental to working heat range.

Regards

CT

SillyOldDuffer20/04/2020 11:30:02
Moderator
7566 forum posts
1681 photos

Posted by Andy Carruthers on 20/04/2020 09:04:39:

...

I did find this relay on eBay: https://www.ebay.fr/itm/163857213519 Please check the pinouts and unfortunately I don't speak French but it *might* be the right part

I think this is certainly the right part. It has a matching part number. HR-AMR-Y/012 Z1

HR-AMR-Y means it's an Automotive Relay. Although 'Fitre' made the faulty one there's no reason to replace it with another 'Fitre', any part matching the specification should do.

012 means it has a 12V coil

Z defines the pins, internal switch arrangement, current capacity and the 'must operate' and 'must release' voltages.

1 means the relay is fully sealed rather than being open or having a removable dust-cover.

The codes that matter when ordering an equivalent automotive relay are 012 and Z, and the French site ticks all the boxes.

Decoding part numbers is hit and miss. Many manufacturers use private codes making it difficult to identify entirely bog-standard components. Published identifiers can be hard to track down and it doesn't help the generic identities come in national flavours, usually for historic reasons. But in this case I think it's clear - the French relay is compatible, fingers crossed!

Dave

C T20/04/2020 17:18:04
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48 forum posts
3 photos
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/04/2020 11:30:02:

Posted by Andy Carruthers on 20/04/2020 09:04:39:

...

I did find this relay on eBay: https://www.ebay.fr/itm/163857213519 Please check the pinouts and unfortunately I don't speak French but it *might* be the right part

I think this is certainly the right part. It has a matching part number. HR-AMR-Y/012 Z1

HR-AMR-Y means it's an Automotive Relay. Although 'Fitre' made the faulty one there's no reason to replace it with another 'Fitre', any part matching the specification should do.

012 means it has a 12V coil

Z defines the pins, internal switch arrangement, current capacity and the 'must operate' and 'must release' voltages.

1 means the relay is fully sealed rather than being open or having a removable dust-cover.

The codes that matter when ordering an equivalent automotive relay are 012 and Z, and the French site ticks all the boxes.

Decoding part numbers is hit and miss. Many manufacturers use private codes making it difficult to identify entirely bog-standard components. Published identifiers can be hard to track down and it doesn't help the generic identities come in national flavours, usually for historic reasons. But in this case I think it's clear - the French relay is compatible, fingers crossed!

Dave

Dave Thank you,

With the detail you give to the identifiers and that you are absolutely clear in your own mind the French offering is perfectly compatible "not just compatible but exactly the SAME" relay then I think I will take a chance with ordering two from them.

I know I have been guided away from choosing an automotive sized relay and fitting it outside the module but would it have WORKED?

Regards

CT

Grizzly bear20/04/2020 18:20:11
283 forum posts
8 photos

Hi CT,

Thanks for your reply.

Have you got a automotive relay to hand?

Your transistor is good for 0.5 amps.

Simple, to me is what works for you.

Involving the French, to me, is not a simple option. (They don't like us).

If you've got a good relay, go for it!

Good luck,

Bear..

SillyOldDuffer20/04/2020 18:24:41
Moderator
7566 forum posts
1681 photos
Posted by C T on 20/04/2020 17:18:04:
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/04/2020 11:30:02:

Posted by Andy Carruthers on 20/04/2020 09:04:39:

...

I did find this relay on eBay: https://www.ebay.fr/itm/163857213519 Please check the pinouts and unfortunately I don't speak French but it *might* be the right part

I think this is certainly the right part. It has a matching part number. HR-AMR-Y/012 Z1

...

I know I have been guided away from choosing an automotive sized relay and fitting it outside the module but would it have WORKED?

Regards

CT

Possibly; a few things need to line up:

  • 12V (OK)
  • 130Ω coil, which is 90mA to suit the electronics. A lower resistance coil (as found on bigger relays) is likely to pop the transistors.
  • The contact configuration (some combination of normally closed, normally open, which has to be got right, and could be probably rewired without much trouble.)
  • The current capacity of the contacts. (Probably not critical, but too small and they weld together or burn out.)
  • The relay's 'must operate' and 'must release' voltages (Unlikely to matter but might depending on the electronics.)

Had it been me, and the right relay not available, I'd certainly have tried an alternative assuming there was space for it and the wiring not completely unprofessional. (As cars vibrate cable terminations break and insulation chafes - badly done wiring can be a fire hazard.)

Hope the new relay works out - there are other things that might be wrong, but I think you've successfully isolated the relay as guilty. Well done, I lack the patience!

Dave

Grizzly bear20/04/2020 18:29:55
283 forum posts
8 photos

Hi CT,

Thanks for your reply.

The transistor is good for 0.5 amps, it's only operating the relay coil.

If you have an automotive relay to hand, go for it.

Good luck,

Bear..

C T21/04/2020 17:14:33
avatar
48 forum posts
3 photos
Posted by Grizzly bear on 20/04/2020 18:29:55:

Hi CT,

Thanks for your reply.

The transistor is good for 0.5 amps, it's only operating the relay coil.

If you have an automotive relay to hand, go for it.

Good luck,

Bear.

Grizzly Bear.

Thank you for taking time out to help.

Sorry for the delay in getting back but cleaning the house plastics (guttering, soffits and the like) interrupted serious work.

Back to business I do have a number of relays I have collected over the years not all new ones but in the collection is a new R20BC- 5 blade 40/30A changeover relay.

Data sheet https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk/c-219-relays-flasher-units/p-644-12-volt-5-blade-relay

I also found something I had forgotten about it was when Maplins were closing down I purchased a number of items I thought may come in useful. In amongst a lucky bag of random things one of which is a timer kit you know the self assemble ones.

Well in the kit is a 5 pin changeover relay HKE HRS4=S=DD12V C

Found the data sheet https://www.manualshelf.com/manual/hke/hrs4h-s-dc12v-c/datasheet-english.html

Is there any mileage in either of the relays?

Regards

CT

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