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New design of mains plug?

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LADmachining30/03/2020 18:05:45
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103 forum posts
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The earth pin on that plug is shrouded which is another no-no and instant giveaway of a non-conforming plug.

herbert punter30/03/2020 18:10:53
89 forum posts
Posted by DrDave on 30/03/2020 18:01:29:

I have never understood the British love of fused plugs: most of the world seems to be happy with unfused plugs. None of the electrical equipment that I bought when I lived in Switzerland has a fused plug, for example.

Other than the regulatory requirement here (and after all it does sound like a good idea), can anyone explain why Britain and the colonies have this different plug philosophy?

It’s because we tried to save copper after the war by using ring circuits for sockets. Other countries use radial circuits with the fuse in the consumer unit rather than the plug.

Bert

Former Member30/03/2020 18:15:02

[This posting has been removed]

old mart30/03/2020 18:23:09
1532 forum posts
136 photos

Just look at every mains low voltage charger or power supply you have. I guarantee that most will be cheap Chinese junk. My Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Motorola and Tom Tom ones are. Throwing away all your dangerous ones for safety's sake is great, just make sure you have a box of matches handy, you'll need them.

DrDave30/03/2020 18:34:15
190 forum posts
39 photos
Posted by herbert punter on 30/03/2020 18:10:53:
Posted by DrDave on 30/03/2020 18:01:29:

I have never understood the British love of fused plugs: most of the world seems to be happy with unfused plugs. None of the electrical equipment that I bought when I lived in Switzerland has a fused plug, for example.

Other than the regulatory requirement here (and after all it does sound like a good idea), can anyone explain why Britain and the colonies have this different plug philosophy?

It’s because we tried to save copper after the war by using ring circuits for sockets. Other countries use radial circuits with the fuse in the consumer unit rather than the plug.

Bert

Thanks for the explanation, Bert. I suspected that it might be something along those lines.

Dave

Howard Lewis30/03/2020 18:35:43
3146 forum posts
2 photos

By the sound of the comments, a powder fire extinguisher would be preferable to a box of matches. Or are they so that you find your way in the dark to the fusebox?

Howard

SillyOldDuffer30/03/2020 18:39:32
5631 forum posts
1157 photos
Posted by Bill Chugg on 30/03/2020 18:02:17:
Posted by vintage engineer on 30/03/2020 17:58:46:

Doesn't CE stand for China Export?

...

Chaps seem determined to believe there's a Chinese organisation responsible for official 'China Export' or 'China Engineered' marks that are carefully designed to look like EU CE marks. Can anyone find this organisation? The EU couldn't.

Truth is fake CE marks are just fake CE marks. The initials don't stand for anything, they're an empty con. Fake plugs are sold marked 'BS1363'. No-one believes BS stands for 'Beijing Special', 'Best Stuff' or 'Bull S**t''. It's just a fake. Same problem with any other safety mark - they can all be copied by the ill-disposed.

Fraudster do what is needed to gain credibility. It is true the Chinese government don't care much about guys exporting junk, but - in the UK - it's the importer who is responsible for the validity of CE marks, not the manufacturer. Very few governments police the quality of exports, remember time-expired Baby Food sold in the third world, and clapped out racehorses in British Ready Meals.

Caveat Emptor!

Dave

Brian Sweeting30/03/2020 18:44:23
413 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by DrDave on 30/03/2020 18:01:29:

I have never understood the British love of fused plugs: most of the world seems to be happy with unfused plugs. None of the electrical equipment that I bought when I lived in Switzerland has a fused plug, for example.

Other than the regulatory requirement here (and after all it does sound like a good idea), can anyone explain why Britain and the colonies have this different plug philosophy?

I would have rephrase that question to why doesn't everyone else bring their electrical standards up to our UK level but I am biased of course.

Former Member30/03/2020 18:50:02

[This posting has been removed]

SillyOldDuffer30/03/2020 18:55:58
5631 forum posts
1157 photos
Posted by DrDave on 30/03/2020 18:34:15:
Posted by herbert punter on 30/03/2020 18:10:53:
Posted by DrDave on 30/03/2020 18:01:29:

I have never understood the British love of fused plugs: most of the world seems to be happy with unfused plugs. None of the electrical equipment that I bought when I lived in Switzerland has a fused plug, for example.

Other than the regulatory requirement here (and after all it does sound like a good idea), can anyone explain why Britain and the colonies have this different plug philosophy?

It’s because we tried to save copper after the war by using ring circuits for sockets. Other countries use radial circuits with the fuse in the consumer unit rather than the plug.

Bert

Thanks for the explanation, Bert. I suspected that it might be something along those lines.

Dave

More to it than simply saving copper, though that's true. The system is electrically more flexible than spurs, and though not ideal for everything, it's generally a 'good thing', well thought out. One advantage is 13A at 230V is plenty powerful enough for most domestic purposes and nearly 6kW can be pulled from a double socket by two appliances; brilliant in kitchens and workshops. A disadvantage is the plugs are massively overrated for ordinary electronics and table lamps etc. The extension leads behind British home entertainment systems could be smaller and much neater, but who cares?

The system allows spurs as well: my cooker is 40A, and the electric shower 30A. Tese are hardwired for safety and there's a special low amp spur socket for electric razors.

Dave

Neil Wyatt30/03/2020 19:11:47
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17722 forum posts
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Posted by Ian P on 30/03/2020 15:45:38:

Its not possible to visually check separation of the transformer.

Ian P

If it's an SMPSU, which I'm sure it is, it should have side by side coils.

The key thing is how well the two sides are separated on the PCB.

Neil

Neil Wyatt30/03/2020 19:16:18
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17722 forum posts
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Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 30/03/2020 18:39:32:
It is true the Chinese government don't care much about guys exporting junk, but - in the UK - it's the importer who is responsible for the validity of CE marks, not the manufacturer.

People often forget that when they buy things of Bangood ewtc. THEY are personally the importer.

Unlikely to be an issue, unless their dodgy PSU burns the house down along with theneighbours...

Neil

Former Member30/03/2020 19:26:37

[This posting has been removed]

not done it yet30/03/2020 19:32:09
4503 forum posts
16 photos
Posted by Bazyle on 30/03/2020 17:43:36:

It isn't the plug that is a threat unless you expect it to b used by children or halfwits and you could easily clue on a plastic disc with 3 holes in it if you are really worried. The danger as mentioned above will be fire especially as it is advertised as 70W . It is switched mode so no transformer and probably fully potted inside which actually helps heat dissipation. Of course there are lots of non CE items being imported as long as you allow advertising and direct shipping of electrical goods. What do you expect - trading standards to open every package arriving from China?

What makes you believe it is ‘switched mode’? Don’t be another fooled by the advertising wording. ‘Switched’ far more likely refers to the output switch on that pot. Nowhere have I seen that it is described as a switched mode item. Please enlighten me if I am not correct.

not done it yet30/03/2020 19:41:21
4503 forum posts
16 photos
Posted by herbert punter on 30/03/2020 18:10:53:
Posted by DrDave on 30/03/2020 18:01:29:

I have never understood the British love of fused plugs: most of the world seems to be happy with unfused plugs.

It’s because we tried to save copper after the war by using ring circuits for sockets. Other countries use radial circuits with the fuse in the consumer unit rather than the plug.

Bert

Quite right, too. Who really wants a 15A fuse, at the distribution panel, to protect a flimsy 3A lead from plug to equipment? I fit an appropriate fuse for the device being used. Most certainly not a 13A fuse for most things.

Question: Are all flexible leads rated at 15A in the rest of Europe? If so, that is a waste of copper!

old mart30/03/2020 19:47:11
1532 forum posts
136 photos

One good reason for a fuse in the plug if selected properly, (1, 2, 3, 5 ,7, 10, or 13A), is the protection it can afford each individual item. A radial will have a fuse rating for the wiring, not the components connected. A radial in the UK will have a 16A circuit breaker at the consumer unit, not great protection for anything consuming less than 3KW. 

That particular power supply was not bought with the intention of leaving it unatended. I am one of those people who disconnect the power supply from pc's after shutting them down.

 

Edited By old mart on 30/03/2020 19:52:03

Michael Gilligan30/03/2020 19:52:55
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15478 forum posts
668 photos
Posted by not done it yet on 30/03/2020 19:32:09:

What makes you believe it is ‘switched mode’? Don’t be another fooled by the advertising wording. ‘Switched’ far more likely refers to the output switch on that pot. Nowhere have I seen that it is described as a switched mode item. Please enlighten me if I am not correct.

.

With that power output and that size ... How could it not be question

MichaelG.

.

Here’s a Youtube video for you: **LINK**

https://youtu.be/Vl2de3Rsiw4

DrDave30/03/2020 19:56:29
190 forum posts
39 photos
Posted by not done it yet on 30/03/2020 19:41:21:
Posted by herbert punter on 30/03/2020 18:10:53:
Posted by DrDave on 30/03/2020 18:01:29:

I have never understood the British love of fused plugs: most of the world seems to be happy with unfused plugs.

It’s because we tried to save copper after the war by using ring circuits for sockets. Other countries use radial circuits with the fuse in the consumer unit rather than the plug.

Bert

Quite right, too. Who really wants a 15A fuse, at the distribution panel, to protect a flimsy 3A lead from plug to equipment? I fit an appropriate fuse for the device being used. Most certainly not a 13A fuse for most things.

Question: Are all flexible leads rated at 15A in the rest of Europe? If so, that is a waste of copper!

I’ve just checked one of my Swiss socket strips: it says that it is rated at 10A max.

Ian P30/03/2020 20:02:44
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2352 forum posts
98 photos
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 30/03/2020 19:11:47:
Posted by Ian P on 30/03/2020 15:45:38:

Its not possible to visually check separation of the transformer.

Ian P

If it's an SMPSU, which I'm sure it is, it should have side by side coils.

The key thing is how well the two sides are separated on the PCB.

Neil

I am not a designer of power supplies but have seen hundreds of different designs of SMPS in everything from phone chargers to large bench PSUs and dont recall seeing more than a couple withe primary and secondary windings on separate bobbins.

Some that 'bigclive.com' has investigated and dismantled have the primary and secondary windings on alternate layers so more or less interleaved. If manufactured properly the isolation between input and output will meet or exceed the regulations, problem may arise if some other protection fails (say it overheats and the thermal fuse fails shorted) the transformer insulation may break down and couple mains to the output.

There are others on here that have intimate knowledge of PSU design and would be able to explain better than I that the subject PSU of this thread is extremely likely to be a safety hazard.

Ian P

old mart30/03/2020 20:05:04
1532 forum posts
136 photos

Without cutting the psu case in half, I couldn't say whether it is a switched mode type, although I did mention not getting a reading with my meter set at 20M, could that be a clue. I thought that 20 meg ohms resistance set on the meter would show something through the primary of a transformer.

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