By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale Jan 24th

7 pin connector 240v?

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Peter Bell26/03/2020 14:31:47
291 forum posts
138 photos

Hello,

I want to use a small 7 pin plug and socket to carry around 100ma 240v ac each pin.

I have looked at the Amphenol C 091 series (T3476 001 etc, from RS) which appears to be rated at 240v ac and 5a.

However I seem to remember some "communications" on this or a similar subject recently on this forum but cannot remember where and cannot find it!

Can anyone point me to the thread or suggest something suitable without breaking the bank?

Thanks Peter

Clive Brown 126/03/2020 14:34:51
405 forum posts
11 photos

Would 7 pin Din connectors suit? Cheap as chips on Ebay

Clive Brown 126/03/2020 14:35:53
405 forum posts
11 photos
Posted by Clive Brown 1 on 26/03/2020 14:34:51:

Would 7 pin Din connectors suit? Cheap as chips on Ebay.

Re-think, perhaps not for 240v.

Sorry, meant to edit first post.

 

Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 26/03/2020 14:38:23

SillyOldDuffer26/03/2020 14:58:45
5638 forum posts
1159 photos
Posted by Clive Brown 1 on 26/03/2020 14:34:51:

Would 7 pin Din connectors suit? Cheap as chips on Ebay

Maybe in an emergency; I wouldn't. Quite apart from the 240VAC issue I hate the things. And they get worse as more pins are added. Not intended for repeat insertions either, yuk.

This aviation type might better, rated for 240Vac @ 5A.

7 pin plugs or 8 or 9? Don't forget neutral and earth.

Could the requirement be tweaked? I don't care much for multicore mains cabling with plugs and sockets if it can be avoided. Presumably a controller is operating remote equipment? If so, I'd prefer to send low voltage control signals to switch the mains remotely via relays. Isolating mains power from the control system could be safer.

Dave

Dave Halford26/03/2020 15:09:46
702 forum posts
6 photos

It's normally unwise to put mains through a socket not intended for power. It's possible to for someone else to plug a ordinary signal cable into the socket and get an unpleasant surprise.

Martin Kyte26/03/2020 15:25:26
avatar
1807 forum posts
33 photos

The one you specify would suit. I would like to see sleeving on the soldered connections though.

It is amazing the things you do in your youth though. Three of us used to run Disco's as teenagers starting off in the local Scout hut. Early light show was driven by a motor driving a set of cams operating microswitches leading off to various 3 way spot banks etc. Well we wanted a 3 colour spot bank down the other end of the hut and had no multicore let alone connectors. Solution. Three lives sent down an ordinary mains extension cable one channel on each pin. Pick up the Neutral and Earth from a handy mains socket on the far end wall and Bobs yer uncle, Charlies yer aunt and Fanny's in the air force as they say.

Make you cringe now doesn't it.

regards Martin

Mike Clarke26/03/2020 15:50:36
avatar
89 forum posts
7 photos

Hi,

The Bulgin "Standard" or 4000 connector would suit (check their range for other possible suitable connectors) - and freely available form RS/Farnell/CPC etc

They're not the most compact but easy to assemble and not expensive.

Regards,

Mike

Edited By Mike Clarke on 26/03/2020 15:53:14

Clive Foster26/03/2020 15:50:54
2157 forum posts
73 photos

I like the Bulgin 8 pin style for this sort of thing RS 487-378 and 487-384. Not uber cheap tho' at around £15 the pair from RS and quite large.

Clive

old mart26/03/2020 16:00:00
1540 forum posts
136 photos

This type is rated 250V, but might be too big for your requirement. The DIN type are only up to 100V unfortunately.

**LINK**

John Haine26/03/2020 16:33:55
3017 forum posts
160 photos

When Weller first introduced their temperature controlled soldering irons the lead from the base to the iron, which needed 3 wires carrying 24V AC and ground, were attached at the base to shrouded terminals with little strain relief. So they upgraded the design and used a miniature Bulgin type connector - this was about a half-scale version of the old 1" diameter bulgin connectors that were often used for the mains lead on various instruments, hifi etc before IEC connectors came along. However the small Bulgin was actually designed to carry mains and certain equipment actually used it for that so there were mains leads around with 13A plugs on one end and the miniature Bulgin plug on the other - and it was possible to plug this in to the 24V output on the soldering iron base!

Well one bright spark technician in the Post Office Research dept where I worked thought they would demonstrate to the safety people what could happen - it was most spectacular as the transformer tried to deliver 2400V to the mains plug! That design did not last very long! A good demonstration of why careful connector selection is very important.

Nick Clarke 326/03/2020 18:14:21
avatar
687 forum posts
21 photos
Posted by John Haine on 26/03/2020 16:33:55:

a miniature Bulgin type connector - this was about a half-scale version of the old 1" diameter bulgin connectors that were often used for the mains lead on various instruments, hifi etc before IEC connectors came along. However the small Bulgin was actually designed to carry mains and certain equipment actually used it for that so there were mains leads around with 13A plugs on one end and the miniature Bulgin plug on the other

Horrible things they were too. They were used, amongst others for the mains input on Ferrograph Series 7 Reel-to-reel tape recorders and Quad 303 and 50E amplifiers.

Very difficult to wire up, very limited strain relief so wires kept breaking and needing to be re-soldered and virtually impossible to sleeve the connections inside the plug - which in my case used to be solder first wire and sleeve it, solder second wire and get the sleeving on only with great difficulty and solder the third wire without sleeving as there was no room and irrespective of which connector it was.

Thinking about it for the first time in years and shuddering, it would be easier today using heatshrink that the Hellerman sleeving I used to use than.

Nick Clarke 326/03/2020 18:24:03
avatar
687 forum posts
21 photos
Posted by Martin Kyte on 26/03/2020 15:25:26:

It is amazing the things you do in your youth though. Three of us used to run Disco's as teenagers starting off in the local Scout hut. Early light show was driven by a motor driving a set of cams operating microswitches leading off to various 3 way spot banks etc. Well we wanted a 3 colour spot bank down the other end of the hut and had no multicore let alone connectors. Solution. Three lives sent down an ordinary mains extension cable one channel on each pin. Pick up the Neutral and Earth from a handy mains socket on the far end wall and Bobs yer uncle, Charlies yer aunt and Fanny's in the air force as they say.

Make you cringe now doesn't it.

regards Martin

At Uni in the seventies all of the halls of residence had hall parties and I was one of the student techs who provided lights, sound and sometimes projection.

None of the extension leads we used (all 13A plugs and sockets) had fuses fitted these were only in the adaptors from Wylix plugs which were the standard in the Halls. So if a fuse blew you traced the lead(s) back to the Wylix socket and you knew that was where the fuse had blown. Saved checking each lead in a line of several.

Technically this became possible after a previous student had discovered that one of the materials testing machines in the materials lab used samples 3/16" diameter and the right length to fit in a 13A plugtop!

Even us students were never able to blow 3/16" dia mild steel fuses. At least not in my time...……… devil

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 26/03/2020 18:24:46

Mike Poole26/03/2020 18:56:00
avatar
2545 forum posts
60 photos

I bought some of the eBay aviation connectors purely because they are so cheap, it would surprise me if they are fitted to aircraft. I would hope to find connectors like the military spec Amphenol on any aircraft I was a passenger in. Do these “aviation” connectors actually meet any specification for aviation use or does it just sound good in a sales pitch? the quality of my purchase was in line with the price paid but they will be ok in the non critical application I purchased them for. Are they a cheap copy of a quality connector or are they just a cheap and nastyish component?

Mike

Clive Foster26/03/2020 19:04:39
2157 forum posts
73 photos

Another type I like is the ITT Canon Trident Ringlock and QM series connector pairs. A little smaller than the Bulgin ones with crimp type removable contacts so much easier to assemble.

But you need to buy contact sets separately, ideally should get the pukka crimp tool and contact extractor too. All gets very spendy for one plug and socket. I had a bunch of 12 and more way sets to assemble so I got the tools and still have a stash of contacts. If nothing else appeals I could make you up a lead set with, I think, size 16 contacts, its years since I looked at what I have.

Clive

Maurice Taylor26/03/2020 19:12:12
76 forum posts
9 photos

Have a look at this range from CPC.

Circular Threaded Panel Mount Connector Socket, 6-Pole, IP68 -

SP1312/S6C

Part No CN21346

Robert Atkinson 226/03/2020 19:31:45
avatar
617 forum posts
16 photos

The C091 series are NOT suitable for mains, certainly not UK 240V.
They do have voltage rating of 250V but this is not for direct connection to AC mains supply. Even in an low energy system, isolated from ground they would be marginal.
Assuming you are in the UK, amongst other requirements, any connector carrying mains (other than for double insulated equipment or inside equipment where a tool is required for access) must have an proctive earth contact that makes before the power contacts and breaks after.
Note that neither the 1" or minature Bulgin round connectors are approved for mains use when accesible.

Harting HAN series with earthing contact e.g. 6+E (assuming 1 of your 7 is earth) is about the best choice for multipole mains.

What exactly are you trying to do?

Robert G8RPI.

Maurice Taylor26/03/2020 19:54:26
76 forum posts
9 photos

Hi please ignore my previous post regarding multipole connectors ,I have made a mistake only the 2 and 3 pole connectors are 240Volt rated . Do not use this range I have suggested.

Sorry

Maurice

Peter Bell26/03/2020 19:56:35
291 forum posts
138 photos

Thanks everyone--bit of a minefield, no wonder I was puzzled!

I've also suffered the min Bulgin on hifi kit so rather avoid, the other Bulgin are a bit big. The CPC suggestion sounds good but the voltage is a bit low for a reasonable amount of pins. Dont really want to attempt dedicated crimping—also been there before!

Suspected the C091 was not suitable for 240v which is why I asked the question.

The application is to connect to the operating coils (240v) on 3 existing air solenoid valves. I want to connect these to relays inside a dedicated box which is housed inside a cabinet.

If I use (reasonably priced) connectors I’ll be able to proof test the box in the workshop as the equipment is in continuous use.

Peter

Robert Atkinson 226/03/2020 20:52:57
avatar
617 forum posts
16 photos

For 3 Valves you only need 5 pins, 3 switched lives (or neutrals), 1 neutral (or live) and earth. I'd suggest a HAN A 4+PE

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/?sra=oss&r=t&searchTerm=HAN+A

You need a female on the power source obviously. You can get screw or crimp terninals and plastc or metal shells.

Robert G8RPI.

John Paton 126/03/2020 21:05:57
avatar
268 forum posts
17 photos
Posted by Mike Poole on 26/03/2020 18:56:00:

I bought some of the eBay aviation connectors purely because they are so cheap, it would surprise me if they are fitted to aircraft. I would hope to find connectors like the military spec Amphenol on any aircraft I was a passenger in. Do these “aviation” connectors actually meet any specification for aviation use or does it just sound good in a sales pitch? the quality of my purchase was in line with the price paid but they will be ok in the non critical application I purchased them for. Are they a cheap copy of a quality connector or are they just a cheap and nastyish component?

Mike

Have you told Boeing? This may assist their investigation!

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Support Our Partners
emcomachinetools
ChesterUK
Warco
cowells
Eccentric July 5 2018
Allendale Electronics
Ausee.com.au
Eccentric Engineering
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest