|geoff adams||18/03/2020 13:35:24|
|180 forum posts|
on the midday news pm wants industry to switch production to make these machines as a model engineer with 4 cnc machines 3 mills 2 lathes etc i would be willing to make any parts i can but how do you offer your services
sorry if this in the wrong thread
1022 forum posts
Geoff, This address was provided by our local Chamber of Commerce at the request of the national organisation so suggest you contact them directly.
I agree there are many of us who would be well placed to produce small parts for this emergency - even if it was for out of pockets expenses only !
PS I wonder if the team has any ideas information on how one would make such a device - a simple version - form everyday easily available products ????
Edited By JohnF on 18/03/2020 14:03:20
1495 forum posts
Makes you wonder. With all the tooling that forum members have, + the knowledge it's a shame your idea could not be used. Even if it was to make a particular part.
With my knowledge I could sweep up & make tea.
Edited By Steviegtr on 18/03/2020 14:04:56
|Harry Wilkes||18/03/2020 14:07:41|
981 forum posts
Contact the Prime Ministers Office maybe at No 10
|David Jupp||18/03/2020 14:11:14|
|751 forum posts|
The Cabinet Office sent an 'urgent request for resources' that was presumably distributed to companies nationwide through various channels (I received it via the local 'combined authority'
The request is moderately wide ranging but also quite specific - they are looking for people with experience in certain industry sectors (medical devices, pharmaceutical, suppliers and sub-contractors to the above), and also companies that already manufacture/supply 'critical components' that might go into ventilators.
I suspect that things are steered to a large degree by this being a highly regulated area. They don't seem to be looking for general manufacturing capabilities.
Reading between the lines - people with relevant expertise/experience may be diverted from their current jobs into the manufacturing effort.
There is a parallel track sourcing manufacturing/warehousing space.
Edited By David Jupp on 18/03/2020 14:11:32
|Dave Halford||18/03/2020 14:27:23|
|921 forum posts|
I wonder where JCB fit into this?
18875 forum posts
I should think there are quiet a few now idle multi axis machines with things like motorsport on hold or service parts for aircraft not being in such demand the could be put to use. Then there are all the injection mouldings, composite parts and electronics probably better farmed out to Nissan subcontractors who now don't have a factory to supply.
I can't imagine that they were produced at a vast rate and it may be a case of a lot of the existing component suppliers just dropping other contracts an concentrating only on parts for these machines as they would have die, patterns, jigs etc and be able to meet the specifications.
|Bryan Cedar 1||18/03/2020 15:14:03|
|51 forum posts|
Producing ventilators for whales I should think, nothing smaller.
|Andy Carlson||18/03/2020 17:06:30|
|295 forum posts|
I had a similar thought when the news came over the radio on Sunday afternoon. I'm not sure to what extent the UK government are willing/able to engage with 'grass roots' offers of assistance - so far the stuff in the media seems to be focussing on big concerns like JCB et al.
Many of you will dislike Facebook but there is a group on there discussing grass roots production of things to help with the outbreak - not just ventilators.
The group is called 'Open Source COVID19 Medical Supplies'. Be warned that sorting out the signal from the noise is a challenge but there is some good stuff on there if you genuinely want to know how practical it would be to make the right kind of ventilator and what else might be useful.
Many of the UK and US folks seem focussed on 3d printing as the main way to make things, stepper motors as the motive power and Aruinos and similar as the controller. There are some folks on there in other countries who are trying to do things with less high tech approaches.
Personally (and I suspect like many), I would be willing use my limited facilities to help but there is also a danger that too many helpful people without any idea of how to help may actually have a negative effect. Unless I can see a definite way to help then I will avoid adding to the noise on the group.
|Adrian R2||18/03/2020 18:08:53|
|41 forum posts|
If any of you skilled folks have production capability or expertise that could be applied, you can register here:
(returns to lurking)
|Mick B1||18/03/2020 18:46:15|
|1726 forum posts|
+1. The volumes required are vastly in excess of the quantities any exponent group of model engineering techniques or equipment could possibly turn out in the required timescales.
Edited By Mick B1 on 18/03/2020 18:46:58
1190 forum posts
I would suggest it's not that easy, as modern ventilators are exceedingly complicated.
This Financial Times link contains an embedded letter which sheds some light on the more modern kit.
I have no idea of the authenticity of Dr G's comments, but they do provide valuable explanation, assuming they are valid.
For the record, I am not an NHS ICU consultant in the South East of England... But if I were to imagine having done ICU since 1986 I might make some observations:
|220 forum posts|
Thanks for a really good clear explination of so many issues.
4804 forum posts
I think established industry has the production capacity. It just needs to be redirected from making precision hydraulic control systems, fuel injection systems, engines, etc etc to making medical kit built to existing designs.
I don't think the situation is like WW2 where demand outstripped total industrial capacity so home engineers were recruited to add to the output from their garden shed workshops.
The current situation is a real good argument for governments to subsidise or at least tax-assist the automotive industry. You then have the factories and myriad smaller specialist supply factories in place to be used to make specialist items in an emergency - be they weaponry and ordnance or medical kit.
Here in Australia we just got rid of the last car factory -- along with the rest of manufacturing -- so there is nowhere much left to be swung over into manufacturing medical kit if need be. All we can do these days is serve lattes to each other in the "service economy".
Edited By Hopper on 18/03/2020 22:50:31
|Nigel Graham 2||23/03/2020 00:11:10|
|748 forum posts|
I think the most anyone outside the ventilator-manufacturers themselves can be expected to do is make individual parts, but would have to work under stringent QC measures, at the very least close dimensional inspection, and very likely with full materials-traceability - not to mention extraneous bumph like the ISO9001 management-control scheme.
They would also be expected to make large batches, so probably be given CAD/CAM files for direct use on sophisticated machine-tools; and emergency or not, under conditions of normal commercial confidentiality. To some extent that is made easier by relative anonymity - titling the drawings by part-number alone, for example.
Model-engineers were indeed recruited in WW1 to make parts for shells etc., but modern manufacturing and quality-control methods in fields such as medical equipment are almost certainly beyond all but a few of us now.
Even those of us (well, you, not me) able to take on the work physically may also run up against the problem of insurance. I don't mean of product-liability, because you would be making small parts under rigorous inspection rules from a supplied drawing and possibly supplied materials; but just of household and model-engineering cover. Despite the circumstances this would be a commercial enterprise, outside of what the car insurers call " social, domestic and pleasure ".
So whilst we might all look at our workshops and wonder if we can help, I think wondering is all we can do.
6324 forum posts
Sadly true. Between 20 and 30% of British shells failed to explode in WW1 mostly due to inaccurately made fuze parts. At the time the professionals struggled to make them correctly, discovering there's a difference between a master-craftsman taking hours to do a good job, and the need to make 60,000 near identical items per day. Amateurs made too few parts and what they made was more likely to be out of tolerance. Amateur work was more useful for less critical turned parts, but it was never more than an adjunct - couldn't do quality fast enough to make a difference. The experiment wasn't repeated in WW2.
My other hobby - amateur radio - has much more chance of being useful in an emergency. HF and VHF radio don't depend on complicated technologies like the internet, telephone networks, mains power, or satellites etc. It's good for sending short terse messages, locally, nationally and internationally. Not very likely to be used in anger because modern communication systems are pretty resilient. We're in big trouble if Boris ever needs my help to talk to the Donald!
Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 23/03/2020 09:40:55
|Tony Pratt 1||23/03/2020 10:04:23|
|1230 forum posts|
I'm absolutely sure British industry has the capacity but whether it can be harnessed in time is going to be the big question, hopefully we have some decent facilitators behind the politicians?
|488 forum posts|
One of the ministers the other day mentioned the specs were online, google has finally found them.
I must admit I was expecting it to be full schematics on how to build one. These specs mean you have to design and test your own, hardly a rapid way to produce them.
Maybe after you register they will allocate component work.
|Mike Poole||23/03/2020 10:37:50|
2743 forum posts
I would have thought the lead time to production would be a major problem. The manufacture of the tooling to make the parts required would be a major hurdle. I expect many of the parts would be proprietary so the makers would need to man up to work round the clock 24/7. I suspect that most medical equipment suppliers only work a standard week so there would be a possibility to ramp up production significantly. Even if companies have comparable machinery they will not have the jigs and tooling to make parts. I would think the crises will be over and forgotten before equipment could be reliably supplied.
|Cornish Jack||23/03/2020 12:19:45|
|1170 forum posts|
Apart from the need for extra ventilators, there is a constant and just as essential need for PPE for the front line staff. The present issue, in a number of cases, is demonstrably insufficient - particularly face masks. Maybe someone has considered the following, but I haven't seen it mentioned. ...
Scattered around UK airports are large (and increasing) numbers of out-of-service airliners. Each one has at least 2 HERO quick-don oxygen masks, plus further similar for the cabins, They are regularly serviced and should be easily disinfected, if required. I would think it would be very quick and relatively simple to 'harvest' well over a thousand such initially, with more and more becoming available (unfortunately), Additionally oxygen facilities may well be suitable for removal and use. The airliners would not be held up for eventual return to service because of the other required servicing constraints Thoughts?
Please login to post a reply.
Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!
You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.
Click THIS LINK for full contact details.
For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.