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Herbert Junior Surface Grinder.

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peak403/03/2020 12:27:40
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1118 forum posts
133 photos

I picked up a slightly tatty one of these a month or so ago, and knowing that several folks on here have one themselves; I was wondering, does anyone have a manual for it. The only one I can find on the net is on a file sharing site, which needs a credit card for access.

Currently I've got it stripped and am gradually cleaning it to see if I can get by with the level of wear; I know I'm going to have to shim the tapered gib key on the vertical motion, but have the stuff to do that. I may need a thicker key on the table as well.

I completed the re-wiring yesterday, but was rather delayed by the lack of a contactor behind the switch cover. In its place was a Tupperware box containing a variety of live ammunition. surprise

Some .22, 7.62mm, 9mm, 12 bore and 410, along with a load of nail gun cartridges. All are now handed in to the local police station.

It did come with a magnetic chuck, but just too big to re-face on the machine itself, as it's 10"x5" and the grinder only has 4" X travel.

Also Tony's site claims a Y travel of 10", which the rack under the table would just about permit. The motion is controlled by a lever, which interferes with the X handle, and limits travel to about 7 ½", which is too short for my planer blades.
I was thinking of replacing the lever with a normal three spoked hand wheel; any thoughts??

From Lathes.co.uk

a table 21" x 6" (533 x 152 mm) with a single central 7/16" T-slot, a maximum longitudinal travel of 10 inches (though at one setting only 8 inches could be used) and a cross travel of 4 inches.
I'm not quite sure to what the emboldened wording above refers

Bill

Martin Kyte03/03/2020 12:59:02
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1903 forum posts
34 photos

I'm fascinated to hear what the police said to you. Sounds like they treated you with common sense. It would be good to hear a real story of authorities behaving in a sensible way.

regards Martin

Edited By Martin Kyte on 03/03/2020 13:15:43

Mike Poole03/03/2020 13:21:42
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2620 forum posts
63 photos

I handed some ammunition in to police during an amnesty as I felt the opportunity was there for life to be difficult in normal circumstance. The officer I dealt with did ask me if I minded supplying my name and address although he made clear that I did not need to as the amnesty was operating. I was happy to oblige. He related the tale of an elderly lady walking in with a rifle with no case or bag and she had walked the street with the weapon. He seemed to imply that the surrender of weapons and ammunition would be welcomed at all times but you do feel vulnerable to being charged with possession of an illegal weapon or ammunition. I would guess that items surrendered would be checked for any record of involvement in a crime. I was confident that the ammunition I surrendered was either from my grandfathers time in the home guard or my fathers service in the war. I kept the leather pouch though.

Mike

Martin Kyte03/03/2020 13:35:05
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1903 forum posts
34 photos

I quite understand your feelings of vulnerability Mike. It's not always made easy for people to do the right thing not least because of loss of confidence in the state apparatus which you feel is probably misplaced but without proof to the contrary it's difficult to dispell.

regards Martin

Still I suppose this isn't helping the OP get his manual apart from bumping the thread.

Edited By Martin Kyte on 03/03/2020 13:36:37

peak403/03/2020 13:38:30
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1118 forum posts
133 photos

Police behaved entirely reasonably, and just listed it as owner unknown, though I did explain the circumstances.
I bought the grinder off a chap who'd done a workshop clearance, from a deceased motorcycle builder and muzzle loading enthusiast. Not sure why a black powder shooter would need modern ammunition, but he's no longer around to ask.
I did take the precaution of reporting via 101 to get an incident number, before I left the house with the ammunition, just to cover myself.

Bill

Martin Kyte03/03/2020 13:45:44
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1903 forum posts
34 photos
Posted by peak4 on 03/03/2020 13:38:30:


I did take the precaution of reporting via 101 to get an incident number, before I left the house with the ammunition, just to cover myself.

Bill

That's wise thinking.

regrards Martin

peak402/08/2020 13:18:47
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1118 forum posts
133 photos

Probably time for a bit of an update on this one.
I never did find a manual, so like all good engineers, I stripped it to find out how it worked. wink

It turned out to be so worn in the slides as to be more or less unusable for anything precision, though it might have sharpened a scythe OK with the amount of "banana" wear in the main table's movement.

It it's of interest to anyone, there's a couple of photo albums (both the same) with annotated pictures on
Facebook HERE
https://www.facebook.com/peak4/media_set?set=a.10216842822810830&type=3

and on

Flickr HERE
https://www.flickr.com/photos/peak4/albums/72157715281085636

This one has higher resolution photos than the facebook album.
Also the Flickr album should have a slide show facility at the top right, but you'd miss out on the photo descriptions, which with so many photos might actually be a good thing.

There's probably far too many photos, mainly of the various setups for measurement and machining.
I hope they might provide use or interest for someone considering attempting a similar job, as the methods I used will apply to many machine tools.

Note that it's not intended as instructions, as I've never been taught how you are supposed to approach this type of work, and I'd never scraped anything before.
First job was to make a scraper, and then chop a piece of cast iron to make a straight edge; it became more and more time consuming from then on, but filled the lockdown time nicely.

It does however show that even someone like me, with no training, and little experience of machine tool re-building, can achieve a vaguely passable result; I hope it will provide a bit of inspiration for someone else to have a go.

Quite happy to answer any questions.

assembled with wheel dresser.jpg

In the end it was probably worth it, though certainly not cost/time effective.
Maybe I should strip and paint it now.
The first job I've done, other than roughly re-finishing the mag chuck, was to make some end/side plates for the chuck.
I was quite pleased that they have come out about 1½ tenths over 10" length (0.004mm over 250mm), though they are only a bit under 1" wide.
Still awaiting a more appropriate wheel to complete re-surfacing the chuck; I'm using a spare 6" offhand grinder wheel at the moment until the courier turns up. The surface finish certainly shows some fine "bounce" marks from the wheel, but whether this is due to an inappropriate wheel, lack of balancing, or shot spindle bearings, I'm not sure.

Any thoughts on the best way to re-finish a 5" wide chuck with only 4" cross travel??
The only options I can see, are to use a wider wheel of 1"+ or move the chuck on the table.
The machine has an official wheel capacity of 6" x ¾" x 1¼" and only a ½HP motor, which struggles at much more than a ¼ thou full width pass; the vertical adjustment only has 1 thou divisions.

Bill

Ady102/08/2020 17:37:48
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3741 forum posts
519 photos

Well done to you sir,

She looks great and you've saved a bit of history

David George 103/08/2020 09:46:24
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1263 forum posts
438 photos

I wish I had a similar machine but no room . Just one thing I would put up a guard on the left hand side just to catch those few wayward jobs that get away ocasionaly by not being quite magnetic or two big o cut etc.

Nice job

David

Plasma03/08/2020 19:22:48
417 forum posts
50 photos

I have the same machine, could not find a manual anywhere.

Its a great little tool and gives a good finish.

Mine has the one shot lubrication system on it so not as worn as it could be.

I sharpen horizontal milling cutters using a pair of centres and a mandrel with a basic indexing finger.

Mick

peak403/08/2020 21:16:44
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1118 forum posts
133 photos
Posted by Plasma on 03/08/2020 19:22:48:

I have the same machine, could not find a manual anywhere.

Its a great little tool and gives a good finish.

Mine has the one shot lubrication system on it so not as worn as it could be.

I sharpen horizontal milling cutters using a pair of centres and a mandrel with a basic indexing finger.

Mick

Cheers Mick, what wheels are you using, and have you found a source at a reasonable price please.
The finish on this one is certainly showing an element of wheel bounce, so I'm not sure if it's a wheel issue, or main spindle bearings.
Have you had the top end of yours apart?
Any thoughts on the best way to re-grind the 5" wide chuck?

I'm fortunate enough to have a Clarkson grinder as well for the tool sharpening, which came out of one of Arthur's Skips years ago.
We used to be neighbours in Sheffield.

David, Yes I do have a box on the end, though only a temporary wooden one at the moment.
The plan is to make something better, that slots into that little chrome handle, and then couple it up to an old Aquavac to keep the dust down (particularly when dressing wheels).

Bill

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