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Phil Whitley22/02/2020 12:29:57
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Posted by Hopper on 22/02/2020 11:58:39:
Posted by Phil Whitley on 22/02/2020 11:44:42:
,,,, right up until 1988 the scientific concensus was that we were heading for another ice age,

No it wasn't the scientific consensus at all. Quite the opposite actually.

globalcooling.jpg

This is exactly the sort of result you would expect from NOAA, given that they promote this alarmism, and are well paid for doing so. There is apparently (I have checked) no way of finding out how this chart was researched, and where the data came from. It would seem odd, given that physics is the same all over the planet, that experiments conducted to test the hypothesis resulted in such diametrically opposed results, or is this just opinions? Seems like it is an excercise in getting scientists to admit they were wrong after the fact. The media reported predictions of catastrophic cooling, just as today they predict catastrophic warming. I am not saying the planet is not getting warmer, it is...very slightly, and the warming is linear, and has been since the little ice age. I am not denying climate change, Climate has always changed. Since the last ice age we have had about 40 degrees of warming, and over 400 feet rise of sea level. What I am saying is that the alarmist view of catastrophic change is not backed up by the science, or real world observations, if you look at the whole picture of all the data and graphs, rather than using the alarmist technique of finding an exeptionally low year, and starting your graph there so you can show a constant uphill trend, which, if you look at all the data, does not actually exist. A technique clearly illustrated here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJWnMA3-sQs&t=1877s.

Mike Poole22/02/2020 12:36:06
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I get the feeling that many of the science reports in the press are a sensationalist snapshot of a subject to excite readers or viewers and give a scientist his five minutes of fame. This type of reporting is tending to undermine serious science. Nutrition is a subject where we regularly get informed that a scientific study has identified something that is good or bad for us, a few years down the road another study will promote the opposite. I feel that everything is ok in moderation, an occasional fast food meal is not going to harm you but extreme indulgence will not be healthy. I hope to join the rest of the old men down the pub who have enjoyed a pint all their life in moderation without harming themselves. The social aspect of a pint down the pub must have a benefit to our wellbeing. Loneliness in old age is a serious problem and a visit to the pub keeps the mind and body active, I have seen some of the younger regulars walk someone home, not because of inebriation but because they are struggling with walking.

Mike

Phil Whitley22/02/2020 13:06:15
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Another interesting thing for all the alarmists to research is that CO2 does not drive temperature, temperature drives CO2. CO2 is soluble in water, and is dissolved in rain, which is in fact, weak carbonic acid.

" Normal rain has a pH of about 5.6; it is slightly acidic because carbon dioxide (CO2) dissolves into it forming weak carbonic acid. "

The sea is a huge reservoir of CO2, and the colder the sea is, the more CO2 it can hold. Slight variations in atmospheric temperature cause the sea to lose CO2 to the atmosphere, but it is the rise in temperature that causes the rise in CO2, not the other way around. On a millenial scale, the lag between temperature rising, and CO2 levels rising is measured in hundreds of years. Al Gores famous scifi movie, "An inconvenient Truth" relies on a very compressed graph which shows the correlation between temperature and CO2. Correlation, however, is NOT causation (as my statistician/mathmetician wife is always telling me) and if you stretch the graph out along the time axis, it becomes clear that it actually shows peak CO2 FOLLOWING peak temperature.

This is a FORUM. The purpose of a forum is to debate ideas, not insult each other. I am not interested in opinions, they are like figernails, we grow some, then cut them off and grow some more. In order to form a balanced view of what is happening, you have to look at both sides of the story!

Russell Eberhardt22/02/2020 14:18:08
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Posted by Phil Whitley on 22/02/2020 12:04:37:

True Russell, just remember that the steam engine was invented by a blacksnith without any recourse to any form of science,

What blacksmith was that?

As I understand it, the first practical machine using steam to produce useful work was invented by Thomas Savery, using principles set forth by a French physicist whose name escapes me for now. Newcomen later built on those ideas to build what is generally held to be the first modern steam engine. I don't think any of those men could be considered to be blacksmiths although Newcomen undoubtedly employed some in his manufacturing business.

I would be interested to know of any blacksmith who could have invented a steam engine earlier.

Russell

Nick Clarke 322/02/2020 14:33:10
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Hero of Alexandria (1st Century CE), but I doubt he was a blacksmith either

The French guy was Denis (Dionysius) Papin

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 22/02/2020 14:36:42

Nick Clarke 322/02/2020 14:40:40
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Posted by Mike Poole on 22/02/2020 12:36:06:

……... Nutrition is a subject where we regularly get informed that a scientific study has identified something that is good or bad for us, a few years down the road another study will promote the opposite...…..

My late father, a GP for 40 years summed it up for me personally when he repeatedly remarked that you could name any human activity whatsoever, and you will find a bunch of doctors who are against it!

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 22/02/2020 14:41:07

Neil Wyatt22/02/2020 14:56:06
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Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 21/02/2020 16:57:53:

Is it right to use land to produce biofuels when over 800 million people in the world are going hungry?

Russell

A very good question!

Neil Wyatt22/02/2020 15:01:09
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While some of us may disagree profoundly on these issues, please can we keep the discussion civil?

Neil

Neil Wyatt22/02/2020 15:08:53
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Posted by Phil Whitley on 22/02/2020 12:29:57:
Posted by Hopper on 22/02/2020 11:58:39:
Posted by Phil Whitley on 22/02/2020 11:44:42:
 
,,,, right up until 1988 the scientific concensus was that we were heading for another ice age,

 

No it wasn't the scientific consensus at all. Quite the opposite actually.

globalcooling.jpg

 

This is exactly the sort of result you would expect from NOAA, given that they promote this alarmism, and are well paid for doing so. There is apparently (I have checked) no way of finding out how this chart was researched, and where the data came from.

Here's a link to the original report which is fully referenced if you want to check the sources.

If you look here, there's an excellent summary and links to background information.

**LINK**

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 22/02/2020 15:18:14

Nick Clarke 322/02/2020 17:14:53
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Posted by duncan webster on 22/02/2020 00:29:38:

Way back in the 30's I think (no I don't remember!) there was an article in ME about an electrically heated boiler, insulated electrode down the connected to live, boiler shell connected to neutral and away you go. I think it had an isolation transformer, but still sounds a bit dodgy.

Purely by chance, having been laid up for a couple of days I saw the article in an old volume of ME I was reading to keep myself amused. I will see if I can find the picture quickly

But any electrical immersion heater will do the same if it corrodes through and the water is heated resistively - albeit very inefficiently.

Found the Pic: Yes it had an isolating transformer, but that was to stop the fuse blowing not to protect bystanders. If anyone is interested I'll add the other pages.

electrode_boiler.jpg

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 22/02/2020 17:40:32

Robin22/02/2020 19:10:27
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The more I looked in to it the more I realised that we are still in an Ice Age. The glaciations killed off our million year survivor ancestor h.erectus and very nearly wiped us at the same time. This interglacial will end on a fairly gentle slope down, if we can figure out what ends an interglacial then we might be able to fix it. Soot is good at absorbing heat that would usually reflect off the ice sheets back in to space, I think soot could be our salvation. We need to understand the problem before we do anything to try and fix it.

vintage engineer22/02/2020 21:03:19
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Wickes are selling off their coal. 10kg bags £2 each. Offer ends Monday

Hopper22/02/2020 22:38:07
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Posted by Phil Whitley on 22/02/2020 12:29:57:
Posted by Hopper on 22/02/2020 11:58:39:
Posted by Phil Whitley on 22/02/2020 11:44:42:
 
,,,, right up until 1988 the scientific concensus was that we were heading for another ice age,

 

No it wasn't the scientific consensus at all. Quite the opposite actually.

globalcooling.jpg

 

There is apparently (I have checked) no way of finding out how this chart was researched, and where the data came from.

You are totally wrong again. The 2008 study by Peterson et al clearly referred to at the top of the chart is readily available online here American Meteorological Society

It's accepted as valid science by the American Meteorological Society, who clearly know more about this stuff than you or I.

 

Edited By Hopper on 22/02/2020 22:42:48

duncan webster23/02/2020 01:18:00
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Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 22/02/2020 17:14:53:
Posted by duncan webster on 22/02/2020 00:29:38:

Way back in the 30's I think (no I don't remember!) there was an article in ME about an electrically heated boiler, insulated electrode down the connected to live, boiler shell connected to neutral and away you go. I think it had an isolation transformer, but still sounds a bit dodgy.

Purely by chance, having been laid up for a couple of days I saw the article in an old volume of ME I was reading to keep myself amused. I will see if I can find the picture quickly

But any electrical immersion heater will do the same if it corrodes through and the water is heated resistively - albeit very inefficiently.

Found the Pic: Yes it had an isolating transformer, but that was to stop the fuse blowing not to protect bystanders. If anyone is interested I'll add the other pages.

electrode_boiler.jpg

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 22/02/2020 17:40:32

That's it. Actually with an isolation transformer you could earth the shell so it would be quite a bit safer. I wonder if an arc welder could be pressed into service (hoping someone who understands welding transformers will comment, way out of my expertise. It does have one great feature, when you run out of water it stops conducting electricity, so no chance of burning out.

Brian G23/02/2020 08:00:47
671 forum posts
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Thanks to the services of certain online markets, electrode heaters as shown in this video are readily available.

Brian G

https://youtu.be/hIUJWIT9GrU

John Haine23/02/2020 09:18:05
2996 forum posts
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**LINK**

Please read.

CHARLES lipscombe23/02/2020 09:29:05
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To Mark Rand:

I would cheerfully bare my bum in public if I thought that would convince anyone to think instead of blindly accepting what they hear from "experts".

Unfortunately Mark's post is typical of the response of many climate change believers - denigration and insult of anyone who has an alternative point of view.

Maybe Mark follows the common belief that all scientists are to be trusted. After a lifetime as a scientist I can assure him they are not all purely disinterested men of science. As Paul Whitley said "it is very hard to get a man to tell the truth when his paycheck depends on it". If you want proof of this just look at standard ,legal practice where the defence and the prosecution field "experts" with opinions that suit their respective employers.

I repeat my assertion to Mark that it would be well-nigh impossible to get a university grant to discredit global warming - not for any logical reason, but because universities tend to be populated by radicals pushing their latest cause.

Chas

Mike Poole23/02/2020 09:41:16
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A three phase electrode boiler was the steam generator for the salt spray test for cars, a more hostile environment would be hard to imagine, anything made of steel was crumbling in the building, all the electrical equipment in the plant room was suffering.

Mike

Anthony Knights23/02/2020 10:36:08
373 forum posts
154 photos

Neil's video shows a clip from "Soylent Green",which is a film based on the Harry Harrison book "Make Room, Make Room". This book is more about overpopulation, which in my opinion is the biggest threat to the planet. Climate change, may well be the planet's response to this threat.

Hopper23/02/2020 11:03:39
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Posted by Anthony Knights on 23/02/2020 10:36:08:

This book is more about overpopulation, which in my opinion is the biggest threat to the planet.

But the richest 10 percent of that population -- that's us -- uses 50 percent of the world's resources. So don't be too quick to blame the other 90 percent for creating our problems.

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