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Did i make the right choice buying an old banger Myford lathe.

After watching a few youtube video's of various lathes this is what i think

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JasonB18/02/2020 07:08:46
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The opening 30secs of that video were enough, guy says it was bought very cheaply and thinks it failed quality control. If you did any research you would have seen that we all advise against that way of buying a lathe and suggest getting ones from known suppliers, you make an assumption they are all like that.

The fact that you did not know what was available in the way of Chinese machines seems to suggest your decision was quite ill informed even though you are happy with what you ended up with.

Steviegtr18/02/2020 12:10:48
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Posted by JasonB on 18/02/2020 07:08:46:

The opening 30secs of that video were enough, guy says it was bought very cheaply and thinks it failed quality control. If you did any research you would have seen that we all advise against that way of buying a lathe and suggest getting ones from known suppliers, you make an assumption they are all like that.

The fact that you did not know what was available in the way of Chinese machines seems to suggest your decision was quite ill informed even though you are happy with what you ended up with.

It was not so much ill informed. I have 2 friends that have them. I did not see them in person I spoke to them. At a meeting. I had heard they had both got one & asked about them. They told me of things they had made on them & I thought of going down that route. It was only when I asked which model would be best, when one of them said. None. The other friend agreed. So I bought a old British one. I think I need to shut up about imported machinery on this forum. It a bad subject.

Steve.

Tony Pratt 118/02/2020 12:39:14
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Posted by Steviegtr on 18/02/2020 12:10:48:
Posted by JasonB on 18/02/2020 07:08:46:

So I bought a old British one. I think I need to shut up about imported machinery on this forum. It a bad subject.

Steve.

Imported new vs used British machines is much like the metric vs imperial debate no right or wrong answer.

Tony

ega18/02/2020 12:45:45
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Steviegtr:

Thanks for the link to the interesting YouTube video - some thing of a commercial for WD40 and Lego men!

You can see why ARC used to charge for preparing their machines. It also made me grateful for the comparative refinement of the Myford.

Alan Jackson18/02/2020 13:04:03
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I thought the video was most illuminating, the quality you get for the price you pay was very obvious. The whole machine is just a set of poorly made parts to a set price, even the screws just about fit the threads. By the way how do you pronounce gib? with a hard G or soft?

Alan

Mike Poole18/02/2020 13:06:50
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Some of the defects in the video appear to be transit damage but we will see if a silk purse can be made out of a sows ear. If the price was right then the remedial work could be regarded as an enjoyable project, if you just want to take it out of the box and crack on with the jobs you bought it for the sorting it out could be an unwelcome task.

Mike

ega18/02/2020 13:12:42
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The video caused me to check - gib like the BeeGee or jib like the sailing term?

It seems that the g should be hard despite the rule that i and e soften c and g.

JasonB18/02/2020 13:31:27
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I suppose the problem with Youtube is that a video of a lathe or mill being use straight out of the crate with minimal set up would not make interesting viewing and once you start watching a few rebuild videos you will get targeted with even more so opinions can be swayed.

If you want another youtube session I could direct you to my two channels, you won't find any rebuilds or major reworking of machines but you will find many working engines built on the four far eastern machines that are in my workshop none of which have needed anything more than a quick check over and maybe an adjustment of the gibs and a tweak of the spindle bearings on a couple when first delivered. It is unfortunate that those that get a machine that works OK don't post about it on forums or post videos as much as those who may have a problems some of which may be reflected in them going to a very cheap source with little backup.

Mick B118/02/2020 14:10:23
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Posted by JasonB on 18/02/2020 13:31:27:

I suppose the problem with Youtube is that a video of a lathe or mill being use straight out of the crate with minimal set up would not make interesting viewing and once you start watching a few rebuild videos you will get targeted with even more so opinions can be swayed.

...

I think the video maker has an agenda to put buyers off these machines by the prospect of the amount of laborious work they'll have to do to make them usable.

The only really serious fault I saw was the slack motor mounting, and that was poor. But a turn or two of a spanner would resolve it.

Edited By Mick B1 on 18/02/2020 14:11:53

SillyOldDuffer18/02/2020 15:25:22
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Posted by Steviegtr on 18/02/2020 12:10:48:
Posted by JasonB on 18/02/2020 07:08:46:
...

...

They told me of things they had made on them & I thought of going down that route. It was only when I asked which model would be best, when one of them said. None. The other friend agreed. ...

Steve.

Could be a misunderstanding? If you ask me which Chinese Model is best, I'd say 'none' too!

But I don't mean they're all complete rubbish, I mean the hobby machines are all similar. Built to a common set of designs to roughly the same specification. It's not like the good old days when Myford were obviously better value for money than the opposition. Remember though that most pre-war hobby lathes weren't very good. Some too cheaply made, many tiny, most lacking features, with unguarded gears, risky bearings and everything extra, including the motor! If you wanted a good lathe before Myford, choice was limited unless a grown-up machine was bought. Far too expensive for most.

The debate is endless because Far Eastern hobby machines are aimed at chaps like me who enjoy metalwork and find it useful, but don't need or want to spend big money on fancy equipment. It's safer to buy new rather than second-hand because of the warranty, and there's plenty of choice to suit the space available: I bought the biggest machine that would fit in my workshop, for which a Super 7 is on the small side.

I'm not doing production work and minor shortcomings don't annoy me. To me Far Eastern tools are disposable, replace when needed, and I'm not worried that my kids will lose value disposing of my workshop when the time comes - straight in the skip with it!

I'm happy with tools provided they do what I need. And despite imperfections and a need for TLC, Far Eastern tools do! I'd rather make things than chase perfection or indulge nostalgia.

Couple of times I've been on the edge of "Myford as status symbol" conversations at exhibitions. It's quite funny to see proud Myford owners demolished by chaps who own proper lathes, like a Dean, Grace and Smith! Don't care myself - others have every right to do as they please with their money and workshops.

The acid test is this: can anyone tell the difference between a model engine made on a Myford and the same engine made on a Far Eastern machine?

Dave

Mick B118/02/2020 16:15:26
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Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/02/2020 15:25:22:
...

Couple of times I've been on the edge of "Myford as status symbol" conversations at exhibitions. It's quite funny to see proud Myford owners demolished by chaps who own proper lathes, like a Dean, Grace and Smith! Don't care myself - others have every right to do as they please with their money and workshops.

...

Dave

...but not to suggest their possession makes them a better engineer. Personally, I wasn't especially impressed by the DSG the Govt. Training Centre got a few weeks before I finished my course there. It seemed to lack some of the useful features of the Elliott I'd been using, and had potentially-damaging traps for the unwary. It was just another centre lathe as far as I could see.

Steviegtr18/02/2020 16:43:40
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I know quite a few model engineers. One particular guy who lives near me was always in his workshop. I spent a lot of time in there with him , watching the making of parts for his engines.

I was always amazed at the quality of everything he made. Even down to painting & pinstriping flywheels. He has two old huge lathes. But irrespective you can not take it away from the engineer doing the work. So i agree with many comments above that it does not matter what you use as long as the outcome is what you expect.

Also i recently bought a set of 5 insert bit toolholders from a jumble brand new for £30. At another stall there was a woman selling individual ones for £18. She would not budge on price. So i bought from the Asian gent outside. The woman had said to me he sells cheap chinese rubbish. I have been using them for 2 weeks now & they are great. Strange thing is, i bet the ones she was selling were also from Asia. Who else makes tooling now.

Steve.

not done it yet18/02/2020 18:42:03
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Posted by ega on 18/02/2020 13:12:42:

The video caused me to check - gib like the BeeGee or jib like the sailing term?

It seems that the g should be hard despite the rule that i and e soften c and g.

Gibbon, gillie, celtic, gillyflower. There are always exceptions and names, such as the Gibb brothers, are ever present - especially if they are inventors!

Steviegtr18/02/2020 19:28:26
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It's a good job my wages weren't dependant on my spelling. blush

Steve.

Howard Lewis19/02/2020 15:26:42
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Looking back at the mention of the Vulture, one good thing in its favour was that it effectively spawned the Merlin powered Lancaster from the Manchester.

But, did the installation play any part in the problems with the Vulture?

I have seen a Leyland engine installed in a chassis, with the original coolant pipework intended for a Gardner, merely sleeved up from inch and quarter to two inch. I'll bet that that did not do much for the coolant flow rates!

(Any one who has seen the internals of a Leyland water pump and a Gardner will know what I mean )

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 19/02/2020 15:26:59

Steviegtr19/02/2020 22:47:30
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Strange how some designs are good but just a few things wrong with it make it bad.

We went to Le-mans some years ago. We all went in open top sports cars. My mate had a beautiful TVR Griffith 5.0. Stunning car. He kept saying my car is overheating. At the Villa one night I had a look at it with him. Straight away I said Steve take your number plate off & get a stick on for the bonnet, like my old E-Type was. He took off the No plate and A Walla. Car was as cool as a cucumber. Why did TVR not see this. Temps in France were rather hot.

Steve.

Bill Pudney20/02/2020 02:07:45
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In WW2 my dear old Dad was an engine fitter in the RAF, for the last 3 or 4 years on Lancaster squadrons and Merlins. He told a couple of stories...

1/ The way of identifying an RR engine from a Packard one without removing cowlings etc was to stick a hand up an exhaust port, an RR engine was cleaned up and smooth a Packard one was "as cast", not to say it was rough, just not as smooth as a RR one.

2/ On the squadrons RR engines and Packard engines were considered interchangeable. When an aircraft was built, in the build documentation the engine number and manufacturer would be indicated. Due to the demands of active service it wasn't unusual for non original engines to be installed as time went along, these could be either RR or Packard.

3/ Apparently each engine had it's own toolkit. If an aircraft was lost or an engine destroyed, the toolkit would be returned to stores and subsequently reassigned to another engine. This didn't stop various bits of a toolkit going missing. As late as the mid 70s I can remember Dad saying, "....careful with that one son, that's a Merlin spanner".

4/ Each engine obviously had its own throttle in the cockpit, part of the arrangement was an emergency boost set up, which required the throttle to be pushed though a "tell tale" wire and enabled a short (I think 5 minutes) burst of absolute maximum power. One of Dads aircraft flew back from Berlin with two dead engines, one at about quarter power and the fourth with the throttle through the wire, flying at ever decreasing altitude the aircraft crossed the coast over East Anglia, only requiring the undercarriage to be lowered to land. At the end of the runway everything was switched off and the fourth engine just went clank clank and stopped, after several hours at emergency power. RR took the motor back and tried to find out why it had lasted so long.

Dad loved Merlins!! He wasn't particularly sentimental but he did go a bit misty eyed when talking about them.....except for the times that he had to do an engine change with snow on the ground and the aircraft at dispersal!!

cheers

Bill

Edited By Bill Pudney on 20/02/2020 02:09:52

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