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Did i make the right choice buying an old banger Myford lathe.

After watching a few youtube video's of various lathes this is what i think

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Mick B117/02/2020 01:21:32
1434 forum posts
77 photos
Posted by Steviegtr on 17/02/2020 01:03:21:

Be careful of saying anything against the spitfire engine. Guy might be listening in.
Steve.

I didn't think anybody did.

not done it yet17/02/2020 08:40:10
4164 forum posts
15 photos
Posted by Steviegtr on 17/02/2020 01:03:21:

Be careful of saying anything against the spitfire engine. Guy might be listening in.
Steve.

Rather pointless? Just for clarity of that comment - what engine was fitted in the Hurricane?

Howard Lewis17/02/2020 16:08:16
2898 forum posts
2 photos

The Merlin, in various marks, powered a range of aircraft, Hurricane, Spitfire, Lancaster, Mosquito to name a few.

Even a few Wellingtons were so powered, I believe.

And MTBs and ASRs? The Perkins T12 was intended as a means of releasing Merlins for aircraft use, but was never needed.

Not sure about Battles, Defiants and Halifaxes without checking. Someone will put the record right.

And the unsupercharged version (supposedly assembled from reject Merlin components, the Rover Meteorite ). Now that powered all sorts of things, including the Thorneycroft Mighty Antar, which hauled tank transporters. Don't ask about the mpg!

Howard

Mick B117/02/2020 16:34:30
1434 forum posts
77 photos
Posted by Howard Lewis on 17/02/2020 16:08:16:

...

And the unsupercharged version (supposedly assembled from reject Merlin components, the Rover Meteorite ). Now that powered all sorts of things, including the Thorneycroft Mighty Antar, which hauled tank transporters. Don't ask about the mpg!

Howard

The Meteor variant powered the later WW2 British tanks Cromwell and Comet, then Centurion and Conqueror.

I'd be interested to know how the design evolved from the late 30s. Starting from a bleeding-edge engine intended to be used in a few hundred fighters, then developing into one critical to the Allied war effort, to be manufactured in tens of thousands for a wide range of applications, must have forced a value engineering process of considerable severity. I wonder if anyone ever documented that.

Howard Lewis17/02/2020 16:50:19
2898 forum posts
2 photos

There was, and probably still is, an argument as to whether the Packard produced Merlins were better than the Derby made ones.

Then there is the argument as to whether quality was maintained, in the light of the possibly short life expectancy.

It should have been that as an aircraft engine, the quality was maintained. Given the number of flights made, and the number of recorded engine failures, it probably was. Certainly, if the throttle had been pushed through the gate,, into "absolute maximum power" the engine had to be checked, or changed.

Howard

Howard Lewis17/02/2020 16:53:20
2898 forum posts
2 photos

Going back to the original thread, from what Steve has said, I don't think that he did buy "An old banger"

Old bangers tend to be a bottomless pit bof money, effort and parts. Steve's lathe does not seem to fit into that category.

So Good Luck, go ahead and enjoy using it!

Howard

SillyOldDuffer17/02/2020 17:17:00
5343 forum posts
1090 photos
Posted by Mick B1 on 17/02/2020 01:21:32:
Posted by Steviegtr on 17/02/2020 01:03:21:

Be careful of saying anything against the spitfire engine. Guy might be listening in.
Steve.

I didn't think anybody did.

And I'm sure Guy Martin won't be offended if I mention the engine so good it replaced the Merlin in late model Spitfires : the RR Griffon! About the same size physically as a Merlin but 37 litre capacity rather than a mere 27. It incorporated many design improvements not available to the Merlin series. More powerful, more reliable and more flexible. Not so well known because the Merlin did excellent service during the difficult bit of WW2 and - being a success - was much mentioned in dispatches.

Specifically not mentioned in propaganda was the RR Vulture. This engine hit multiple awkward design and development issues. Entered service severely de-rated and was still unreliable. Possibly the Vulture might have been debugged except priority was given to improving the Merlin and other less problematic engines. We shall never know. Unlike the Merlin, Griffon and other engines, the Vulture was a failure.

Another point about the Merlin: the prototypes of 1935 were fourth-rate compared with the wonders of 1945. The engine developed considerably over time. Due to a carburettor issue the Battle of Britain Merlin cut-out when put into a dive. This is very bad when up against an enemy who has reliable full-power at all times. Fixing the problem took time: thus a Merlin fitted with the original carburettor isn't as good as same engine modified with "Miss Shilling's Orifice", and both were inferior to the same engine fitted with a late model carburettor. Throughout WW2 the engine itself was modified substantially to fix faults found in service and to improve performance. When praising the Merlin, remember it wasn't just one engine - it was many, some much better than the others.

Not a criticism of the Merlin or the Vulture. Designing high-performance aero-engines is remarkably difficult. Everyone making engines in WW2 had serious problems with their wunderkind!

Dave

Stephen Millward17/02/2020 19:23:52
18 forum posts

I don’t suppose model engineers 50 years ago had the choice of cheap Chinese lathes or cheap second hand. Here are prices from a 1970 tool catalogue, with the price then and adjusted for RPI in 2020.

super 7b £171 (£2806)

boxford aud £286 (£4692)

bantam £460 (£7547)

chipmaster £717 (£11764)

We are spoilt for choice now with cheap new or old lathes.

Steviegtr17/02/2020 19:41:31
avatar
792 forum posts
180 photos

I did have a deeper look at the Chinese lathes. There are so many models. I was under the impression they only sold the ones you can sling under your arm.

Steve.

Mick B117/02/2020 19:51:46
1434 forum posts
77 photos
Posted by Steviegtr on 17/02/2020 19:41:31:

I did have a deeper look at the Chinese lathes. There are so many models. I was under the impression they only sold the ones you can sling under your arm.

Steve.

Took 3 blokes and a length of 4be2 timber to muscle my Warco into the workshop. laugh

Robert Atkinson 217/02/2020 20:08:21
avatar
550 forum posts
21 photos
Posted by Steviegtr on 15/02/2020 00:24:35:

<SNIP> J Curtis & sons on York Road in Leeds. <SNIP> One day I went down into the cellar. Down there were all the technical drawings for the world war 2 planes. It turns out that Curtis's made a lot of woodwork parts for the Avro factory in Yeadon. AKA Leeds & Bradford airport. These drawings were full scale. Huge in length. <SNIP>

Steve.

Edited By Steviegtr on 15/02/2020 00:26:41

The 1:1 drawings are called "Lofts", produced by "Lofting" This was done in the available large open space - the loft.
A key part is drawning curves with flexible strips called splines held in key points using weights. Used for boats long before aircraft.

Robert G8RPI.

mgnbuk17/02/2020 20:18:25
652 forum posts
28 photos

super 7b £171

Is that for a bench top machine , does it include a chuck & motor, (which Myford list separately in the May 1955 price list) and Purchase Tax ?

The Super 7 B was not available in 1955, but a standard Super 7 on a stand, with a 1/2 Hp single phase motor, screwed body 4" 3 jaw and 6" 4 jaw chucks, a 4 tool turret and threading dial comes to £127 13s ex works according to the May 1955 price list. UK purchase tax at the time was 33 1/3 % so you would have had to pay £169 15s, which an online "what are 1955 pounds worth today" calculator reckons equates to £4489.60 in todays money.

According to Hansard, a question was asked about the "average industrial wage" in February 1956 - the answer given by Harold Macmillan included " The actual average earnings in April, 1955, the latest date for which figures are available, were £10 17s. 5d. ", which translates to approx £284 in today's money.

So Myfords were never really cheap - just cheaper than the other alternatives at the time ?

Nigel B.

SillyOldDuffer17/02/2020 20:32:16
5343 forum posts
1090 photos
Posted by Steviegtr on 17/02/2020 19:41:31:

I did have a deeper look at the Chinese lathes. There are so many models. I was under the impression they only sold the ones you can sling under your arm.

Steve.

They also make more than the down-to-a-price hobby models debated on this forum. The dearer machines are an unknown quantity - hobbyists dislike paying too much for the quality they crave!

Stephen Millward17/02/2020 21:51:20
18 forum posts

Super 7b £171 price includes norton box, faceplate, catchplate and 4” backplate - but no motor, no stand, no chucks.

Not sure about tax.

the prices for the boxford and Colchester also chucks

Stephen Millward17/02/2020 21:54:12
18 forum posts

The basic ml7 in 1970 was £94

mgnbuk17/02/2020 22:05:59
652 forum posts
28 photos

Not sure about tax.

1970 was pre-Vat & still at 33 1/3% Purchase tax. From what I can gather, unlike today where a Vat inclusive price has to be shown, there was no requirement to show prices with the Purchase tax included, so an advertised price would have had the tax on top ?

The basic ex-works price of an ML7 bench lathe (no motor, no chucks) in November 1955 was £51 17/6 without a clutch & £57 3/6 with a clutch. By November 1955 the ML7B was available at £73 no clutch & £78 6s with clutch. The stand was £17 5s extra.

Nigel B.

Steviegtr17/02/2020 23:48:58
avatar
792 forum posts
180 photos

Well I have been machining all day on my lathe & it was very good all round. I did have to do some machining of some 2" hex to make it round. There is a name you guys use , is it interupted cuts or something. Anyway it did complain a bit but I got it done in the end. It showed a gib strip that needed adjusting on the top slide. So had enough for the day & came in to watch some youtube as usual. I am half way through watching this guy stripping his Brand new mini lathe because it did not run right. I am absolutely flabbergasted as to how the British government allow such equipment to be imported into this country. A death trap in a box. Have a look. I bought a new mini lathe

Steve.

Hopper18/02/2020 01:12:23
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4148 forum posts
89 photos

As a guy who just last week was asking how to use the reverse jaws on his chuck, you might be better off getting some experience on your own machine rather than worrying about the qualities of others. Its all been discussed on here ad infinitum ad nauseum before.

Steviegtr18/02/2020 01:25:27
avatar
792 forum posts
180 photos
Posted by Hopper on 18/02/2020 01:12:23:

As a guy who just last week was asking how to use the reverse jaws on his chuck, you might be better off getting some experience on your own machine rather than worrying about the qualities of others. Its all been discussed on here ad infinitum ad nauseum before.

oo seems like I hit a raw nerve. Also sound s a bit aluminati.

Steve.

Pero18/02/2020 05:06:26
100 forum posts

Bought several lengths of aluminati, 6082 to be precise, at the end of last year - machines very well!

WRT Hopper you might like to read up on his complete re-build of an ML7 which he purchased in full knowledge that it was in distressed condition.

He has a great deal of practical experience which he is always prepared to share and I for one look forward to his posts and almost always learn something useful from them.

Pero

Current owner of Australian, British, Chinese and American lathes and have no axe to grind. Actually I do have two axes that are very blunt and seriously need sharpening - I find the ankle biter to be the most effective for this task.

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