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Noisy Lathe Gearbox

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Michael Gilligan07/02/2020 10:02:14
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15704 forum posts
687 photos
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 06/02/2020 22:05:35:

I remember being advised to push a pair of old nylons through the filler hole of the noisy diff on my Cortina estate.

.

Probably better to dispose of your weekend attire in the regular manner devil

MichaelG.

john fletcher 107/02/2020 10:15:44
583 forum posts

20 or more years ago when in Canada visiting relatives, they had a large American car to pull their very large caravan and boat. During the journey to a lake, the noise from the rear axle got really loud, we stopped at a garage (not many in such a remote area) the man said I'll pop you in some Winns. Well that Winns simply transformer the vehicle noise wise. I wonder if such stuff is available here in UK and would it be OK for a lathe gear box. Just a thought. John

oldvelo08/02/2020 09:50:09
204 forum posts
50 photos

Hi Geoff

Single Phase motors have a tendency to cause chatter in lathe and mill gearboxes and run roughly due to not being synchronized with the 50 cycles per second power supply when they run at 1425 RPM.

Cured mine by Replacing the drive motor with a  Variable Speed DC motor and pumped oil supply using a fully synthetic 30 oil . Photos in My albums.

The problem with E.P. oil attacking bronze is when it becomes contaminated with water the reacts with the sulphur additive used for Extreme Pressure loading on gears.

An alternative used in extremely high humidity used on worm gearboxes was 600w steam cylinder oil.

Edited By oldvelo on 08/02/2020 09:52:33

Russell Eberhardt08/02/2020 11:35:02
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2577 forum posts
85 photos
Posted by oldvelo on 08/02/2020 09:50:09Single Phase motors have a tendency to cause chatter in lathe and mill gearboxes and run roughly due to not being synchronized with the 50 cycles per second power supply when they run at 1425 RPM.

As I understand it the problem with single phase motors isn't the slip but the cyclic variation in torque with the rotation. It has nothing to do with the speed. A three phase motor produces a much more even torque. It's a bit like the difference between a two cylinder engine and a six cylinder one.

I've replaced the single phase motor on my lathe with a three phase motor and inverter and get a noticeable improvement in the surface finish I can achieve as a result. A DC motor should give a similar improvement.

Russell

Edited to remove spurious smiley

Edited By Russell Eberhardt on 08/02/2020 11:36:12

Harry Wilkes08/02/2020 15:33:07
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893 forum posts
61 photos
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 06/02/2020 22:05:35:

I remember being advised to push a pair of old nylons through the filler hole of the noisy diff on my Cortina estate.

...

Thought it was sawdust one was supposed to use smiley

Baz08/02/2020 15:42:50
374 forum posts

No, sawdust goes into the engines sump, supposed to quieten the big ends!

John MC08/02/2020 15:55:24
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279 forum posts
38 photos

Don't know if its been mentioned, try some "climbing gear oil" (google Lucas climbing gear oil, other brands available).

I first heard about this type of oil in relation to the new version of the not very good Morgan three wheeler. They have a gear box that turns the drive through 90 degrees. Its often very noisy, climbing oil turns down the volume, a bit, apparently.

John

Samsaranda08/02/2020 21:09:43
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929 forum posts
5 photos

John, the product you referred to was Wynns Friction Proofing, an oil additive that used to be on sale years ago, I never used it and I have no idea if it’s still available, I think modern lubricants negate the need for additives nowadays.
Dave W

Oldiron08/02/2020 21:18:33
442 forum posts
22 photos

You can get a very good additive for quietening gearboxes in vehicles from Halfords or other motor shops & Ebay. It is Manual Gearbox Additive made by SLICK 50 costs £15 a small bottle. Easy to use and works a treat. I have used it in a Land Cruiser manual box and also in a farm elevator gearbox with excellent results.

regards

John MC09/02/2020 07:58:08
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279 forum posts
38 photos
Posted by Samsaranda on 08/02/2020 21:09:43:

John, the product you referred to was Wynns Friction Proofing, an oil additive that used to be on sale years ago, I never used it and I have no idea if it’s still available, I think modern lubricants negate the need for additives nowadays.
Dave W

No, its an oil rather than an additive. Just had a look at the Lucas Lube website, I see they no longer use the term "climbing oil", plenty more do, Plusco for instance.

John

Edited By John MC on 09/02/2020 08:00:05

Dave Halford09/02/2020 14:35:24
743 forum posts
6 photos
Posted by john fletcher 1 on 07/02/2020 10:15:44:

20 or more years ago when in Canada visiting relatives, they had a large American car to pull their very large caravan and boat. During the journey to a lake, the noise from the rear axle got really loud, we stopped at a garage (not many in such a remote area) the man said I'll pop you in some Winns. Well that Winns simply transformer the vehicle noise wise. I wonder if such stuff is available here in UK and would it be OK for a lathe gear box. Just a thought. John

Wynns or it's competitor brand STP was an engine oil additive back in the day for those with worn bearings or a Mini

Thick as treacle and just as stringy, don't use it in a modern engine with a Cat.

You can still get STP.

ega09/02/2020 14:39:12
1709 forum posts
150 photos

STP stood for "Scientifically treated petroleum".

thaiguzzi09/02/2020 15:02:56
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696 forum posts
131 photos
Posted by Harry Wilkes on 08/02/2020 15:33:07:
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 06/02/2020 22:05:35:

I remember being advised to push a pair of old nylons through the filler hole of the noisy diff on my Cortina estate.

...

Thought it was sawdust one was supposed to use smiley

Bananas...

Dave Halford09/02/2020 15:06:01
743 forum posts
6 photos

Geoff,

I see wear on the top (spindle) gear. The chuck end of the teeth look narrower.

What you say makes me wonder if they put the oil window in too low as that gear would not be lubed enough by splash from the lower gears.

If Mgnbuk is right about that groove then I hope you levelled the lathe otherwise one of the head bearings has been running a little starved.

Geoff Causon10/02/2020 05:26:07
15 forum posts
6 photos

gearbox gasket.jpgDave, you are correct. That's the reason I over-filled it, in an attempt to get that gearset to pick up.

I made a clear acrylic lid (as suggested by Nigel B) & filled it a bit more to get those gears lubed.

The groove around the housing is sealed by the gasket, so is not draining onto the main bearings.

It's hard to get a decent photo, but the spindle gear & it's driver are misaligned by about 3mm. The spindle gear shows damage, but it's not as bad as it looks in the photo. I just wonder what the mating gear looks like.

I investigated spare parts, the big one is listed but not the small one. I'm not brave enough yet to ask prices, no use just replacing one anyway.

Regards, Geoff.

 

Edited By Geoff Causon on 10/02/2020 05:26:43

Pero10/02/2020 07:03:44
105 forum posts

Quite right Thaiguzzi - definitely banana skins.

Also, I vaguely remember banana oil being used for something to do with model aeroplanes, so use in lathe gearboxes has to be a no brainer.

not done it yet10/02/2020 07:15:18
4639 forum posts
16 photos

If the gears were not splashing oil (the reason why you over-filled it) I would expect those top bearings are toast.

I have around ten gearboxes that have a dedicated oil-throwing gear (it idles all the time but is not part of the gearbox power transmission train). There is no way those boxes can starve top shaft bearings of lubrication.

Edited By not done it yet on 10/02/2020 07:15:48

Michael Gilligan10/02/2020 07:26:12
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15704 forum posts
687 photos
Posted by Geoff Causon on 10/02/2020 05:26:07:

gearbox gasket.jpg

[…]
It's hard to get a decent photo, but the spindle gear & it's driver are misaligned by about 3mm. The spindle gear shows damage, but it's not as bad as it looks in the photo. I just wonder what the mating gear looks like.

[…]

.

I hope you don’t mind, Geoff ... I have straightened your photo a little, and cropped it to reduce the distractions:

e9ec8a34-b168-404c-bfc2-5a6d4eca9ceb.jpeg

It may be an illusion, but ... the gear at top centre of the image looks to have damaged/worn teeth

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 10/02/2020 07:26:58

Dave Halford10/02/2020 10:44:08
743 forum posts
6 photos
Posted by Geoff Causon on 10/02/2020 05:26:07:

Dave, you are correct. That's the reason I over-filled it, in an attempt to get that gearset to pick up.

I made a clear acrylic lid (as suggested by Nigel B) & filled it a bit more to get those gears lubed.

The groove around the housing is sealed by the gasket, so is not draining onto the main bearings.

It's hard to get a decent photo, but the spindle gear & it's driver are misaligned by about 3mm. The spindle gear shows damage, but it's not as bad as it looks in the photo. I just wonder what the mating gear looks like.

I investigated spare parts, the big one is listed but not the small one. I'm not brave enough yet to ask prices, no use just replacing one anyway.

Regards, Geoff.

Geoff,

Is that groove covered fully by the top plate?

The groove has to be there to either help prevent oil leaks (and be covered by the plate) or aid bearing lube as well if not covered by the plate (which means the gasket may be wrong.)

How far above the window is the oil level now? Hopefully below the lowest shaft bearing or it will leak quite a bit.

Have you tried a magnet in the oil?

Russ B10/02/2020 12:27:51
569 forum posts
21 photos

One of the Lathe headstocks I'd worked on had a broke ridge line in the lid above the spindle which allowed oil to run off and drip on the gears below, the last of the ridges dripped into a reservoir cast above the nose bearing providing lube.

Another one of them (Colchester) had a steel fabricated reservoir on top that directed oil to the various parts, including the clutches hidden away at the back of the box.

It's for this reason that I don't use the Newton Tesla drive on my Myford 280 below 50%, as reducing the speed of the whole gearbox any further stops oil being thrown up from the bottom of the box to reach the necessary parts. I keep meaning to pop the case open and reprogram the pot to range from 50-150%

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