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Possible machine hoist?

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David George 101/02/2020 08:31:11
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1196 forum posts
409 photos

Just browsing on the net and on eBay saw thus hoist. I just thought it may be useful to some members at a fairly low cost. It does need a good think about the base load fixing but there are ways round this but I can see it lifting a chuck or rotary table etc.

s-l300.jpg

Vidal truck hoist £199.99. Not connected to seller etc.

David

Clive Foster01/02/2020 10:03:26
2157 forum posts
73 photos

Hi David

Thats an interesting device but waay to big and heavy for in workshop use. Basically its an engine crane on a rotating pillar. Looked at one like that for a project sometime back. As I recall things it was good for something over a ton at 5 ft jib extension.

Realistically its made for the American "Good'Ole Boys" truck market so mostly overkill in Britain. We looked at it to mount on a trailer to help loading but dropped the idea as it all got too permanently engineered. Fit when needed being more appropriate.

As I mentioned in a previous thread a lighter device, hundredweight + capacity or so, on a work cart would seem more appropriate. The work cart giving stability and mobility as well as being useful in its own right. I have a potential design roughed out but am stuck for the cable or strap winder. The inexpensive winches are too big and cumbersome. The crane needs to fold up neatly and not get in the way. A ratchet strap is an appropriate size but those only work one way. What I need is a 1/4 scale or thereabouts come-along.

Clive

Robert Atkinson 201/02/2020 10:19:24
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617 forum posts
16 photos

I could not find that specific one but noted that none of the identical looking ones had no CE marking. This means that it is technically illegal to sell or use them. There is no assurance that they are designe or manufactured correctly. There is no indication that they are not OK, but I would not push the limits or get any part of my body under a load.

Robert G8RPI

Tim Hammond01/02/2020 13:44:37
20 forum posts

Anyone remember the "Haltrac" midget hoist from years ago constructed from nylon pulleys and thin nylon rope? I bought one 40+ years ago, I still use it, find it invaluable for lifting fairly heavy lumps around my small workshop and it can literally be put into a (largish) pocket. Sadly, they don't seem to be made now, although they do appear on Ebay from time to time. If memory serves, I paid 27/6 for mine.

Mike Woods 101/02/2020 14:10:58
22 forum posts
1 photos

My pal has a small Parkside (Lidl) electric cable hoist mounted on rails fixed to his garage roof joists (suitably reinforced) above his Mikron mill to lift machine vice, table extensions etc. 125kg direct lift, but can be increased to 250kg with pulley. I have just returned from my local Lidl before reading this post and noticed a few these hoists are still available from the MoL offer a week or so ago. Probably not recommended for your average shed though, unless you want a roof lowering feature or are confident in your shed strengthening skills. I didn't look at the price, but understand that they were on offer at £59.99 earlier in January

Richard -01/02/2020 21:58:24
55 forum posts
7 photos
Posted by Tim Hammond on 01/02/2020 13:44:37:

Anyone remember the "Haltrac" midget hoist from years ago constructed from nylon pulleys and thin nylon rope? I bought one 40+ years ago, I still use it, find it invaluable for lifting fairly heavy lumps around my small workshop and it can literally be put into a (largish) pocket. Sadly, they don't seem to be made now, although they do appear on Ebay from time to time. If memory serves, I paid 27/6 for mine.

As a young soldier in Germany I was a weapons repair chap working on Chieftain Tanks, we were issued the Haltrac for removal and replacement of the breech block, it was also sold for moving trees, towing cars etc !!

not done it yet01/02/2020 22:05:32
4509 forum posts
16 photos

Somewhere, I have a small ‘tirfor’ type of wire rope hoist/pull-along. Never used it as it was very much lightweight for things I used to do. I thought ig good for 50-100kg, no more.

Kiwi Bloke02/02/2020 00:41:20
408 forum posts
1 photos

If the Haltrac is defunct, someone might do the community a service by 'reverse engineering' one and publishing the design. The lock is the clever bit. Along with all sorts of other things, I lifted a Lotus Twin Cam engine, with 200E gearbox attached, several times with mine. Must have been >3cwt. Somewhat hair-raising, given the thinness of the rope. I wonder where I put it...

Robert Atkinson 202/02/2020 16:08:21
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617 forum posts
16 photos

There are several similar "block and pulley" items on ebay like "mannesmann rope hoist" a random one is www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mannesmann-Rope-Hoist-180-KG-Winch-Puller-20-Meter-VPA-GS-CE-TUV/202667237597
None of them seem to have the holding device of the Haltrac, maybe the patent is still in force. Not to difficult to add a cleat or rope stopper in a fixed installation.

Robert G8RPI.

old mart02/02/2020 16:57:09
1549 forum posts
136 photos

Like Mike Woods, I saw one of the Lidl ones in my local store yesterday. Of course an overhead beam is needed for this type. The crane type would be great if there was enough room for it to sit between two machines. Making a trolley for one is possible if great care was taken in the design and manufacture.

Edited By old mart on 02/02/2020 16:59:20

Bazyle02/02/2020 18:08:35
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5142 forum posts
199 photos

The Haltrack lock is just a cam that presses on the rope squeezing it between the sheave and the top assembly cross bar. The cam action geometry makes it self tightening. The rope passes through a lever on the cam so it is pulled up when the rope is pulled at >45 degrees which means for safety you cannot be underneath it. When I was lifting my minor mill drill this angle meant I was pulled across the floor surprise

The winches known as 'come-alongs ' by the yanks must not be used for lifting, as per their instructions. They lift ok but their mechanism for releasing is not safe and may drop suddenly.

mgnbuk02/02/2020 19:03:59
746 forum posts
60 photos

I could not find that specific one but noted that none of the identical looking ones had no CE marking.

As the hoist as shown cannot be used as supplied & must be attached to something else to be able to function, it cannot be CE marked and should be supplied with a Declaration of Incorporation ?

" The Declaration of Incorporation is a document which accompanies incomplete machinery and states; this piece of machinery is incomplete and only complies with some parts of the directive. ... the manufacturer of the complete machine must ensure it complies with the whole Machinery Directive. "

If a private purchaser bought one of these for their own non-commercial use & did not subsequently market or sell it, would they still be required to CE mark it after it was incorporated into their equipment ?

Nigel B.

Clive Foster02/02/2020 19:17:14
2157 forum posts
73 photos

A link to the Haltrac patent was found by Michael G (of course) in an earlier thread on a similar topic.

Re-posting **LINK** . The diagrams seem plent good enough to reverse engineer.

Realistically the size of trolley to fully exploit the hoist seen in Davids starter post is a car trailer. Single sheet 8 x 4 size sounds about right. Which isn't quite what is wanted

If you don't need a huge lift distance the car mount wheelchair hoist layout seems to have quite a lot in its favour although its probably too tedious to use if not power driven. Basically an L shape jib pivoted at the bottom of the long arm with a screw jack running between a joint close the L bend and a strong point a suitable distance above the bottom pivot. Considerable variation in angles and dimensions between the commercial designs. In practical sizes jib end movement gives a maximum lift of around 3 to 4 ft which may not be enough for all purposes. However given an appropriate basic mounting height and a selection of sling lengths with, if need be, a suitable intermediate support such a device should be up to all workshop floor to bench or floor to machine lifting needs.

That form of wheel chair hoist is my fallback layout for the work car mounted crane I really must get round to making. Trouble is there seems no way of making it fold up neatly out of the way. I guess boltng a scaffold pole to one corner of the work cart and fitting the crane to a slightly smaller post so it could just be dropped in place when needed would work. Would swivel just fine. Crane assembly mavbe 2" thick so no big deal to hang on the wall. Screw ing some paving slabs under the bottom of the work cart and being sensible over the load position relative to the cart should cover any balance issues.

Clive

Howard Lewis03/02/2020 14:53:44
3154 forum posts
2 photos

The device shown has only a small baseplate, so the load, via the baseplate imposes a large vertical tensile load onto the floor fixings, Depending upon the orientation of the load, the load could all be borne by only one fixing.

So it bis imperative that the fixings are securely fixed to the floor, with ground anchors, such as Rawlbolts, in concrete floors, or with a reinforcing plate beneath a wooden floor.

Needless to say, the fixings should be the largest diameter possible and of the highest grade.

My choice would be to fit thick load spreading washers under the bolt heads and nuts, as an additional safeguard..

The conventional garage type of crane carries nearly all the load on the wheels at the front of the long legs, so is preferable, if space allows.

Howard (aka fat Fingers )

Edited By Howard Lewis on 03/02/2020 14:54:36

Martin Kyte03/02/2020 16:24:42
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1808 forum posts
33 photos

Just build Neil's canal crane to a suitable scale.

regards Martin

Andrew Evans03/02/2020 16:26:38
313 forum posts
8 photos

If you can get hold of one hospitals use a lift designed to lift patients from a bed. They are like a small folding engine crane but very lightweight and easy to store.

Jeff Dayman03/02/2020 19:18:26
1793 forum posts
45 photos

If anyone does want to mount a plate mount hoist like David posted the pics of, just be sure of your concrete slab. I have seen some that were large in area and 6" to 8" thick. Obviously they would hold a huge bolted plate load if good slab mounting bolts as mentioned were used. However - I've also seen a few that were 1" thick where the owner thought they were 6" thick. The thin slabs would not be safe for a bolted plate load.

If you have a look in youtube there are a number of videos about collapsing car lifts bolted to slabs. There are many things that can cause a bolted plate joint to pull off a slab.

The engine hoist type of lift on rollers does give good flexibility for home shops. No risk of plate mount pulling off the slab with that.

Samsaranda03/02/2020 19:42:07
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909 forum posts
5 photos

We have a wheelchair hoist in the back of our Honda Jazz, to load and unload the wife’s mobility scooter, I am very impressed with the quality of the product but it certainly wasn’t cheap, nearly £1800 fitted, it’s a small niche market with few suppliers hence the price.

In respect of the Haltrac hoist, an amazing bit of kit, have lifted numerous engines in and out of cars with it, I think I still have it somewhere must be 50 years old now.
Dave W

Robert Atkinson 203/02/2020 20:05:19
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617 forum posts
16 photos
Posted by mgnbuk on 02/02/2020 19:03:59:

I could not find that specific one but noted that none of the identical looking ones had no CE marking.

As the hoist as shown cannot be used as supplied & must be attached to something else to be able to function, it cannot be CE marked and should be supplied with a Declaration of Incorporation ?

" The Declaration of Incorporation is a document which accompanies incomplete machinery and states; this piece of machinery is incomplete and only complies with some parts of the directive. ... the manufacturer of the complete machine must ensure it complies with the whole Machinery Directive. "

If a private purchaser bought one of these for their own non-commercial use & did not subsequently market or sell it, would they still be required to CE mark it after it was incorporated into their equipment ?

Nigel B.

HI,

The hoist is complete, it just needs mounting and power si it has to be marked. If you look at any proper truck mounted crane you will see they are CE marked by the crane manufacturer. an analogy to your view would be that a flat screen TV did not need to be CE marked becaause it had to be mounted on a wall and plugged in.
Currently any item that falls under one of the CE directives has to be compliant and CE marked before it is "put into use" even if it is for personal use only. In practice this is not done and it is unlikely that any enforcement action, or even detection would take place for private individuals. What could catch you out is insurance. If you have to make a claim because of an accident or incident caused by a personally imported non-compliant item they could refuse to pay out. This could leave you homeless.

Robert G8RPI.

mgnbuk03/02/2020 20:50:14
746 forum posts
60 photos

The hoist is complete, it just needs mounting

But until it is mounted, it is not functional. It cannot stand up on it's own or be used for any purpose until it has been installed. Only then will it be a functional piece of equipment capable of being tested.

We use pillar jib carnes at work. I cannot ask anyone to certify a crane until it has been installed, at which point it is inspected and load tested by a competent person and t a LOLER certificate is issued. Non of the pillar jib cranes in our premises are CE marked, but all are LOLER certified. What makes this piece of equipment any different ?

Nigel B.

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