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Milling machine & Shaper query

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thaiguzzi29/01/2020 03:39:27
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698 forum posts
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Posted by Peter Simpson 1 on 27/01/2020 20:13:52:

I to have a Boxford 8" shaping machine and Tom Senior milling machine, I usually use the shaping machine to reduce bar stock to the correct usable size. It gives a fabulous finish and is very enjoyable to use, It will remove 0.5mm cuts on BMS with ease, although I saw somebody on here a while ago stating his could cut 2.0mm cuts on BMS,,,,,,not hope in hell.

When I was an apprentice at ICI Billingham many years ago I watched a large Shaping machine in the mill wrights shop throw huge red hot cuttings all over the workshop. Happy days.

june - nov 2014 078.jpg

Sigh.

I presume you meant me. Again. Here's some proof. Boxford 8" with a 3/4hp motor, single phase. Even the owners manual states it will rip 3mm DOC off.

My suggestion is don't baby the machine or learn some proper tool grinds.

The above were 1.5mm cuts minimum (0.060", maybe 2mm (0.80", can't remember, but the steel was nasty flame cut no-name. Stroke was the full 8" and slowest speed with a light feed.

Note the flame/oxy cut billet below.

june - nov 2014 068.jpg

Same stuff finished off with a shear tool. Notice the difference in swarf with pic no. 1 above.

june - nov 2014 085.jpg

peak429/01/2020 11:45:57
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1154 forum posts
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Posted by Steven Woodward on 28/01/2020 22:42:07:

It sounds like people like their shaper machines....

Out of interest what is the sort of footprint required for an 8" shaper like a Boxford and how heavy are they?

Regards
Steven

Steven, the Boxford chip tray is 18 ½" x 34", obviously that's a bit bigger than the cabinet floor footprint.

On the long side, the ram needs a further 7" beyond the tray as it slides back and forth.

The manual doesn't seem to give a weight, but I moved one myself in a van.
It was already partially stripped down, also separated from the cabinet, and I had a hand to load up.
Unloaded OK on my own, but I do have an elevating hydraulic table/trolley on wheels.

Reassembled OK alone, and added a VFD in the main cabinet. I retained the original mains push buttons, but removed the contact breaker behind them and replaced with microswitches to control the VFD.
N.B. make sure the motor runs in the correct direction; the cutting stroke should be slower than the return stroke.


Bill

Andrew Tinsley29/01/2020 11:56:03
1170 forum posts

If you have room for both mill and shaper, then go for the shaper. All the advantages enumerated above and much easier to cut dovetails than with a mill!

Andrew.

Peter Simpson 129/01/2020 13:11:22
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169 forum posts
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Well just to check I set a 2" square by 6" long piece of BMS up today. Selected the lowest pulley speed. VSD at 50Hz and had a go with a 2mm DOC. As soon as the cutting tool got to its full 2mm cut the machine stalled ? God knows what an 3mm DOC would have achieved. I would be interested to see how your cutting tool was ground. I may not have the correct tool shape. More than willing to have another go with a different cutting tool.

Steven Woodward29/01/2020 16:49:49
10 forum posts

Hi Peter,

Surely it's not just the depth of cut but also the width of the cut? Or am I missing something? I don't know as obviously I do not have a shaper.....

Steve

Steve King 529/01/2020 20:05:30
84 forum posts
94 photos

Just buy one, you'll find some space for it somewhere. I got mine last year after watching abom79, steve summers and lookcreations on you tube. I was saving up for a milling machine at the time but i thought milling machine come up for sale every day but shapers not so much. I was lucky and got one in very good condition with a vice, clamp kit and lots of shaper tooling for £400 if my memory serves my correctly. Its an alba 1a. Iv been using it today cleaning up saw cut cast iron. I was taking 90 thou depth of cut with a step over of 25 thou running at 75 strokes per minute. The machine handled this no problem. I am still going to buy a milling machine when funds alow as im fortunate to have the space. I enjoy using my shaper that much im going to complete harrold hall's book "milling a complete course" using my shaper as im new to machining and i think ill learn loads. Also ending up with some very useful tools in the process. If your in the hull aera come have a go on mine.

Hope this helps

Steve

Mark Rand29/01/2020 22:01:58
918 forum posts
6 photos

My 10" Royal shaper served me for best part of 15 years. It was rough when I bought it, did a quick and dirty rebuild when I got it and a proper rebuild last year, then sold it last weekend.

In its time with me, it's acted as a power hacksaw, with a power hacksaw blade in a custom bow saw/frame saw type frame.

It's machined parts to rebuild two lathes and a milling machine including cutting a couple of pinions, one of which was a form that I didn't have a cutter for and the other that the B&S cutter wouldn't fit in the space available on the blank.

It's done much of the work that a milling machine would have done until I got one working and did the work of a bandwas until I got one of those as well.

Now that I have my Beaver milling machine rebuilt and also have a slotting head for it, the shaper has gone on to someone else that can appreciate its relaxing action and the resulting showers of dangerously hot samurai swarf tinkling about the shed and embedding themselves in the walls and myself. laugh

Edited By Mark Rand on 29/01/2020 22:09:20

Ady129/01/2020 22:13:31
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3813 forum posts
519 photos
Posted by Mark Rand on 29/01/2020 22:01:58:

the shaper has gone on to someone else that can appreciate its relaxing action and the resulting showers of dangerously hot samurai swarf tinkling about the shed and embedding themselves in the walls and myself.

samurai swarf, I like it

My fleecy with its long random streaks of melted polyester is worn with pride

Had a duelling scar across the back of my right hand for quite a few months too

IanT30/01/2020 22:30:23
1581 forum posts
145 photos

Posted by Steven Woodward on 29/01/2020 16:49:49:

Surely it's not just the depth of cut but also the width of the cut? Or am I missing something? I don't know as obviously I do not have a shaper.....

Steve

That's correct Steve - generally when roughing it's better to take a deeper cut with a fine feed (as opposed to a llight cut and a broad feed). This is basically because a thicker chip will not curl as well and requires more power (than a thinner one) and gives greater surface 'tear' that results in a rougher surface - which then takes more effort to clean up.

The shape of the cutting tool is important - a cutting edge angled into the work (with a rounded tip) will work better than an 'upright' cutting edge. The cutting speed has to be right for the material too and that is a function of both motor speed and stroke length (e.g. if you change the stroke length - then the cutting speed changes too).

So deep(er) cuts with fine(r) feeds, a good tool, the right cutting speed are all important things when roughing in the Shaper.

Regards,

IanT

thaiguzzi31/01/2020 05:08:32
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698 forum posts
131 photos
Posted by Peter Simpson 1 on 29/01/2020 13:11:22:

Well just to check I set a 2" square by 6" long piece of BMS up today. Selected the lowest pulley speed. VSD at 50Hz and had a go with a 2mm DOC. As soon as the cutting tool got to its full 2mm cut the machine stalled ? God knows what an 3mm DOC would have achieved. I would be interested to see how your cutting tool was ground. I may not have the correct tool shape. More than willing to have another go with a different cutting tool.

As Ian above concurs, on smaller machines like our Boxford 8"ers, a big DOC recquires a fine feed.

Re tool grinds, i've got most of mine from the best shaper book out there, still available to download and print for free off the net, all 320 odd pages of it, "Suggested Unit Course In Shaper Work" by Delmar Publishers Inc, USA.

Pretty basic shapes, all the common 5-15 degree angles, err on the lesser angles and make sure the tool is honed (or ground on a T&CG) to RAZOR SHARPNESS.

Peter Simpson 131/01/2020 07:37:30
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169 forum posts
8 photos

Well I think an apology is in order. I sharpened a tool and honed it with a diamond block, I also adjusted the feed to as fine as was possible, The machine then cut a 2mm cut using some neat cutting oil. The finish was brilliant. So we can all learn from this excellent forum.

thaiguzzi31/01/2020 08:48:22
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698 forum posts
131 photos
Posted by Peter Simpson 1 on 31/01/2020 07:37:30:

Well I think an apology is in order. I sharpened a tool and honed it with a diamond block, I also adjusted the feed to as fine as was possible, The machine then cut a 2mm cut using some neat cutting oil. The finish was brilliant. So we can all learn from this excellent forum.

No apology needed. We all can learn, inc me. The above book is highly recommended.

Re a nice DOC on a shaper - great fun. Innit.

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