By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale Jan 24th

Why does everyone disagree with you

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Steviegtr27/01/2020 10:05:55
avatar
466 forum posts
126 photos

Well that was a surprise. I thought I was alone in my assumptions. I have got to say above all else this is a brilliant forum with so much of a knowledge base. I was knocking the forum. Just sometimes when I have had replies I go sit on the NAUGHTY STEP FOR A WHILE.

J Hancock27/01/2020 10:06:55
335 forum posts

Ref Ady1 , I would have loved to have seen a 'debate' between someone like LBSC and Jim Ewins over

valve gear design !

Mike Poole27/01/2020 10:24:16
avatar
2311 forum posts
52 photos

If something is a fact then if someone disagrees they can be guided to a factual reference. Opinions are where there is room for a debate as we are all entitled to one. We form our opinions on what we think we know, if our knowledge is incomplete or erroneous then we can be wrong and we should be big enough to admit it if facts can be produced to correct our thinking. If there is not a definitive answer then we can debate forever, a persuasive opponent may change your opinion without facts but then you could both be wrong if an answer does emerge.

Mike

SillyOldDuffer27/01/2020 10:27:31
5120 forum posts
1073 photos

Hmm, having read the above I not sure if I'm a goodie or baddy. Obviously I think I offer good-humoured, accurate well-balanced advice firmly based on evidence, and am able to quote references if necessary. It's not about me being right or wrong, I'm here to share and exchange knowledge. Others might see me as 'difficult', because I will challenge faulty logic and misunderstandings, especially when opinion and beliefs aren't supported by evidence.

The tone of the Forum is conversational; it's more like a group chatting in a pub than a formal meeting of the Royal Society. Threads tend to wander, discussions start, and that leads to debate. It allows the forum to address a much wider range of subjects than, say, Practical Machinist, which is more tightly focussed on direct answers to machining questions. As this is a hobby forum, surely wide diversity is a good thing? It's 'Model Engineering' in the widest sense, not limited to steam locos and Myfords!

The expertise available on this Forum is considerable, and it surely has a good claim to be the most helpful hobby forum on the Internet. It doesn't worry me to be be put right by chaps who know what they're talking about and justify their reasoning. Anyone annoyed by an answer who can't offer a factual rebuttal should look to their psychology: no-one likes being told they're wrong, doubly so when the fault is egregious.

Stevie mentions that his offerings have attracted negative comments. I suggest there's a simple reason: Stevie is newly arrived from a professional electrical background and hasn't quite tuned into the subtleties of home workshop electrics yet. He's a newbie plus, with real skills and gaps.  That's led to a few low scoring suggestions rather than bullseyes. Better to adjust one's aim than to take the hump. What's important is offering help, if Stevie persists his expertise will line up with the problem and everyone will benefit. (As an ex-computer professional, I have the same problem.  I know chaps who favour BASIC are wrong, but my expertise is misplaced. If you know BASIC and it does the job, me insisting of the virtues of other computer languages is unhelpful, even if I am right!)

Finally, just having a strong opinion doesn't make it correct! Engineering isn't about opinions. When the evidence contradicts a belief, dump the belief. Never ever believe your own propaganda!

You're all wonderful.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 27/01/2020 10:34:26

SillyOldDuffer27/01/2020 11:03:56
5120 forum posts
1073 photos

Re my previous post, I've since read Stevie's post on second-hand cars, which got bashed. Got to agree he has a point on that one! Lot's of value in what Stevie said, and he got duffed up!

Dave

Andrew Johnston27/01/2020 11:06:45
avatar
5106 forum posts
594 photos
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 27/01/2020 10:27:31:

Hmm, having read the above I not sure if I'm a goodie or baddy.

Well, if you're a baddy I must be off the scale, but I don't care. smile

Andrew

Harry Wilkes27/01/2020 11:14:05
avatar
793 forum posts
60 photos

Me I find it best to take no notice as long as it's not personal !

H

Nicholas Wheeler 127/01/2020 11:24:01
301 forum posts
19 photos
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 27/01/2020 11:03:56:

Re my previous post, I've since read Stevie's post on second-hand cars, which got bashed. Got to agree he has a point on that one! Lot's of value in what Stevie said, and he got duffed up!

If he had spent a little time editing his post to make it easier to read, that wouldn't have happened. It read like a pub rant where the unknown ranter couldn't remember to breathe; would anyone actually consider that to be worthwhile advice.

 

Tone of forum posts is very difficult to get right.

 

Which is, I think, the OP's point!

Edited By Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 27/01/2020 11:25:23

Cornish Jack27/01/2020 11:44:43
988 forum posts
137 photos

There ARE examples of the OP's views on the forum BUT (as a generality) RARE. ... for which, much thanks!

As a self-admitted cantankerous old git, I try to balance that with a justifiable acceptance that I'm a crap engineer. From that perspective, I accept advice offered here as inevitably superior to my own views ... end of!

Re. fish and chips, here I come into my own ... from a childhood where lack of money (NOT poverty!) meant no shame in asking for the free helpings of batter 'bits' to the over-indulgence of being employed as 'Smokey Joe's' travelling assistant on his Bedford bus mobile chippie. SJ operated from Scorrier (mid Cornwall) and travelled around the local villages, lunch-times and evenings. Small chips 3d, large 6d and fish (always cod) 1/- , newspaper wrapped and cooked (as ALL proper F&C should be!) in dripping! In spite of 'in house' lunches 6 times a week, I never lost my enthusiasm.

There is a danger of the keyboard becoming saliva saturated!

rgds

Bill

David Davies 827/01/2020 11:50:30
avatar
70 forum posts
8 photos

Hi All

Following on from Plasma's post above, if you search Google for the 'Dunning-Kruger Effect' and read same, it may explain why some members mock questions asked by others.

Dave

An Other27/01/2020 11:55:40
148 forum posts

I read this thread with great interest, and found myself agreeing with most points. Just to add my few pennorth, I originally joined this forum a few days after it was set up. It didn't take long for the forum to 'take a negative turn', and it wasn't long before I stopped posting. There were many abusive, unpleasant and unappreciative posts in those early days.

Nonetheless, I stayed as a 'lurker'. Inevitably perhaps, some instances came up when I thought I could help with a query, so I began to post again under an anonymous name. Sadly this didn't stop the 'snotty' posts from people I would have assumed should know better. A notable instance is the software argument - there seems to be a huge number of people who are willing to condemn anything they either don't use themselves, or know anything about. Instead of encouraging the use of new and different tools we could al use, these people find fault all the time, with little evidence of constructive criticism.

I fully agree with the posts about other forums being far more 'user-friendly', to the extent that ME, instead of being one of the first of my 'go to' forums, has become virtually the last place I go - I still read it, but often only to have a laugh at the unhelpful responses. When I dared to comment on this, I was told that if I didn't like, it, I didn't have to read the posts - not really an encouragement to use the forum, would you say?. I wish this was not the case, because I always valued the print version of ME.

larry phelan 127/01/2020 11:56:46
574 forum posts
11 photos

You get used to it, after a while.

I no longer get upset when my posts don't show up.

As someone said, just pick out the bits you find useful and ignore the rest.

Life is too short to bother about it.sad

JA27/01/2020 12:37:02
844 forum posts
48 photos

I feel that this forum is a bit like the Wild West: There are few rules, almost anything goes, sometimes it is wise to keep your head down and you may get shot at. An awful lot of members have hidden pasts (the majority do not have a public profile).

Steveiegtr - A comment, I see that a lot of your posts are made in the late evening. I have found from experience that this is unwise.

JA

Edited By JA on 27/01/2020 12:38:25

Guy Lamb27/01/2020 12:49:09
77 forum posts
Posted by Harry Wilkes on 27/01/2020 11:14:05:

Me I find it best to take no notice as long as it's not personal !

H

It's interesting to hear people talk about their experiences and perceived reactions to some of their postings on this site.

Perhaps because we are communicating via text and not face to face some nuances are misunderstood.

I agree with Harry in so much as if responses do not become personal then no harm is inferred.

There may be on occasions people enjoying a sense of 'one upmanship' but this says more about the respondent than the questioner in my opinion.

Guy

SillyOldDuffer27/01/2020 13:04:31
5120 forum posts
1073 photos
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 27/01/2020 11:06:45:
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 27/01/2020 10:27:31:

Hmm, having read the above I not sure if I'm a goodie or baddy.

Well, if you're a baddy I must be off the scale, but I don't care. smile

Andrew

I've had a PM confirming I'm a baddy... Probably best not to risk an Opinion Poll!

angel

Dave

Journeyman27/01/2020 13:21:06
avatar
676 forum posts
108 photos

disagree.jpg

Georgineer27/01/2020 13:39:11
309 forum posts
16 photos

Steve,

The only threads of yours I've read are Vernier Calipers and Only for Myford Lathes..

The caliper thread contains a lot of useful information, a bit of thread drift (as often happens - it's harmless and can be both informative and entertaining), and some ribbing about the fact that digital calipers are not verniers. To my eye - and I've followed the thread since you started it - the ribbing is good natured and not hostile or aggressive.

I have not followed the Myford thread in such detail, but I must say that your own tone comes over at times as pretty combative. To take some extracts from just one of your posts:

Slag me as you will.… Some will knock it as that's what a few members do. But what the hell. I did it…. if anything is not right the chuck will stop. Some will say why…Some say they fitted the linked belting but for the hell of me cannot think why.… People are fitting these things & think they are the best things since sliced bread. What is wrong with people, they are rubbish & temporary belts….

If you trail your coat like that, it's no wonder that people will engage with you. It has been said (by Ken Keyes in his Handbook to Higher Consciousness; I can't claim it for my own) "A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world. Everyone you meet is your mirror."

Anything with people involved in it will contain some people we would rather not have to deal with. I shrug my shoulders and move on when necessary. Meeting emotion with emotion is not productive (Professor Steve Peters has some valuable things to say about that in his book The Chimp Paradox) so if I need to contradict people I always try to do it courteously and dispassionately.

George B.

blowlamp27/01/2020 13:40:53
avatar
1229 forum posts
82 photos
Posted by David Davies 8 on 27/01/2020 11:50:30:

Hi All

Following on from Plasma's post above, if you search Google for the 'Dunning-Kruger Effect' and read same, it may explain why some members mock questions asked by others.

Dave

Yes. That was about a guy that painted his face with lemon juice and went to rob a bank thinking the lemon juice would make him invisible.

He believed that because lemon juice was is used in invisible ink. idea

When arrested and shown photos of himself committing the robbery, he insisted the photos had been faked.

Seems like a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. smiley

Georgineer27/01/2020 14:34:11
309 forum posts
16 photos
Posted by blowlamp on 27/01/2020 13:40:53:
Posted by David Davies 8 on 27/01/2020 11:50:30:

Hi All

Following on from Plasma's post above, if you search Google for the 'Dunning-Kruger Effect' and read same, it may explain why some members mock questions asked by others.

Dave

Yes. That was about a guy that painted his face with lemon juice and went to rob a bank thinking the lemon juice would make him invisible.

He believed that because lemon juice was is used in invisible ink. idea

When arrested and shown photos of himself committing the robbery, he insisted the photos had been faked.

Seems like a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. smiley

Perhaps he would have been more successful if he had used the Schartz-Metterklume method. It always works for me.

George B.

Swarf, Mostly!27/01/2020 14:35:50
509 forum posts
41 photos

Hi there, all,

This has been an interesting thread so far. I do try to live and let live (honestly, I really do) but there are two things here that make me cringe.

The first is the confusion between arbor and arbour. An arbour is a clump of bushes with a garden seat in its middle.

The second is when posters mishandle quotes so that the quotation bar covers their own text as well as the text they are quoting. (The solution is in the right arrow key.)

These things crop up frequently but I try to refrain from posting about them.

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

Edited By Swarf, Mostly! on 27/01/2020 14:38:26

Edited By Swarf, Mostly! on 27/01/2020 14:39:02

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
Eccentric July 5 2018
ChesterUK
cowells
Warco
emcomachinetools
Ausee.com.au
Allendale Electronics
Eccentric Engineering
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest