|Neil Wyatt||27/01/2020 21:02:58|
17077 forum posts
Just make sure you get one made in their Chinese factory.
|old mart||27/01/2020 21:42:59|
|1098 forum posts|
Got it in one, Mick, the parallax free Mitutoyo's have prismatic slideways and were more expensive than standard ones, that's probably why they are no longer listed. The one in the picture is 6", 150mm and has a spring loaded thumb lock, and the other 5", 127mm one has a locking fine adjuster like most height gauges.
Mitutoyo have a facility in Andover, Hampshire UK, I bought a circuit board for a digital mic from them a few years ago.
Edited By old mart on 27/01/2020 21:44:43
Edited By old mart on 27/01/2020 21:46:38
474 forum posts
Well if the digital CALIPERS are not perfect then I bought some genuine old Moore & wright Micrometer's at weekend. Look new but very old. Reason for posting on here was because today I went to an old friends in Doncaster to take back a MT2 keyless chuck, that I bought off him at the booty.
The shaft was bent & must have been in a lathe crash. He gave me another one which is great. £10 It is a Albright which I think is German.
I have not been to his house before but have known him for many years. Oh my god, his garage is just overwhelmed by everything Lathe & milling. He has like 20 of everything.
He does booties so he can prop up his Classic bike builds. I bought this from him for an Ayrton Senna. Was it a bargain or are these no good.
Please advise as I have never seen one of these before & have 2 Analogue ones from Cronos which seem a bit notchy in use. I apologise for the picture being side on. Edit. I got the mag mount & bits + the gauge. He threw in these inserts too because I set up an inverter that had been on his mill for 2 years, waiting for a mate to set up for him.
Edited By Steviegtr on 28/01/2020 00:59:28
|Mick B1||28/01/2020 07:33:49|
|1357 forum posts|
Well, no actually, I didn't spot that was the reason they could lay the sliding scale flat to the fixed one. I had a Polish Vernier that was similarly made and I didn't notice it as the enabling feature there either, so thanks for pointing it out.
|Martin Kyte||28/01/2020 09:23:46|
1575 forum posts
The Moore and Wright combination set I bought a few years back was definitely sub standard in so far as the square 'wasn't' by some considerable amount. Whilst I bought it for the protractor in the main it was still somewhat dissapointing even if it was cheap. Subsequently I was donated a proper set from the old days.
I do think we are something wide of the mark with our expectations in some cases and mistakenly compare modern items made for the 'hobby' market with professional kit made for the tool rooms of yester-year. Often the brand name is the same so I guess it's not surprising.
I buy reasonable quality milling cutters at reasonable prices for home use which are nothing like the quality not to mention the price of the cutters that our machine shop in the Lab use on their Hass CNC mills.
You pay your money and take your choice largely, however I don't think any of us would like to see the demise of the 'home/hobby market' equipment as few of us could afford to pay professional prices for everything we use.
Model Engineering skills through the years have been as much about compensating for the shortcommings of our affordable machines and equipment as straightforward engineering skills.
I would finally add that qualty measuring kit is top of the list of desireability.
|Mick B1||28/01/2020 09:45:48|
|1357 forum posts|
Even so, price is not necessarily a guide to quality. The Polish Vernier I mentioned above I bought when I was still at the Government Training Centre on an allowance about 2/3 of an entry-level centre-lathe turners wage. It was less than half the price of a Rabone Chesterman Vernier from the same shop, and it was better. That was in 1975, and it lasted over 30 years before I retired it due to some careless damage. People talked about subsidies to industry in Iron Curtain countries, but there was no excuse for British makers not to take advantage of improved design features that made reading easier and more certain.
|5138 forum posts|
Not in my workshop! But I've done expensive training that addressed concepts like 'quality' and 'desirability' and found them both severely wanting. Done for effect, but we were told to take a baseball bat to any employee who justified a particular tool by using the word 'quality'! Quality raises instant suspicion, much as the police are taught about Trade Number Plates, 'Red on White, Stop on Sight.'
Left to their own devices employees without budget responsibilities have a strong tendency to waste money on expensive tools because a friend liked it, or it was hot 40 years ago, or they think it's Made in England, or it confers bragging rights, or the adverts feature a sexy lady, or the tool is nice to use. And sometimes men ask for expensive gear blissfully unaware the owner is considering outsourcing the whole operation because his employees are driving him into bankruptcy.
Desirable requirements also need close attention. Sometimes, like choosing the colour of a car, they cost nothing. More often they add to costs making it necessary to decide just how important they really are. Someone with long legs and car-crash injuries might pay extra to travel Business Class when a short person would be perfectly comfortable in Cattle-Class!
Instead it's better to express need in terms of 'Fitness for Purpose' and 'Value for Money' assessed against lists of Essential Requirements, and weighted Desirable Requirements. Often the first attempt will list Essentials that are demoted to Desirables, and Desirables that are really essential. The process is revealing: it's not done specifically with cost-cutting in mind, it's done to select the most cost effective tool for the purpose. The process can lead to dramatic changes of tack - it led most Armies to reduce Main Battle Tanks in favour of more Attack Helicopters. In all cases, an answer is required to the question 'How long does it take to recover the cost of this investment?' If the answer is 'never', the business is better off doing something else entirely. Including demolishing the factory and putting a car park on the site.
Home workshop purchases don't follow the same rules because we use tools for pleasure, which I find a jolly good reason for spending my money. However, as home workshops rarely need top-end equipment to get acceptable results, I don't think it's a good idea to suggest 'quality measuring kit is top of the list of desirability', without putting it in context.
I wonder how many newcomers have been scared off our wonderful hobby by chaps carelessly pushing them over budget by advising they must buy only the very best tools? In my experience, cheap and nasty are best avoided, but most inexpensive tools work well enough. They may feel rough, take longer to manipulate and be slightly untrustworthy, but they usually get the job done.
Not perfect, they cost time rather than being outright showstoppers. As saving time is a hobby workshop desirable, only the owner can decide how to weight it. Professional time is very expensive making it easy for them to justify buying reliable tools. Hobby time is often very cheap, in which case there's much less need to buy top-end tools.
What's "Fit for Purpose" in a genteel hobby workshop may not be "Fit for Purpose" when time is money. Likewise, what's "Value for Money" in a professional context, might not be in a hobby workshop.
There are two types of outright foolishness, wasting big money unnecessarily on bling tooling, and wasting big money due to being an over-optimistic cheapskate. I simply suggest purchasers have a think about what they want of their tools before buying anything! For making a start, the middle way has done me proud. So far I've not found it essential to buy any tool worth boasting about!
Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 28/01/2020 12:55:39
|not done it yet||28/01/2020 16:14:24|
|3940 forum posts|
Have to agree with SOD on this. The new tool I have bought in the last year or so, that I use most regularly is the left handed digi caliper for about 23-24 quid.
If I need dead-on measurements, I dig out the digi micrometer, but for ease of measurement, in situ on the lathe, that left handed caliper is so much easier to use. I don’ need top class instruments but I do demand reliable, consistent results from my measuring kit.
Like the parcel that arrived
|Michael Gilligan||28/01/2020 17:52:13|
14778 forum posts
Nearly eight years later I get an opportunity to re-post this:
This seems a good time to share my favourite quotation.
Peace of mind isn't at all superficial to technical work. It's the whole thing. That which produces it is good work and that which destroys it is bad work. The specs, the measuring instruments, the quality control, the final check-out, these are all means toward the end of satisfying the peace of mind of those responsible for the work. What really counts in the end is their peace of mind, nothing else. The reason for this is that peace of mind is a prerequisite for a perception of that Quality which is beyond romantic Quality and classic Quality and which unites the two, and which must accompany the work as it proceeds. The way to see what looks good and understand the reasons it looks good, and to be at one with this goodness as the work proceeds, is to cultivate an inner quietness, a peace of mind so that goodness can shine through.
Robert M Pirsig - Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance [An enquiry into values]
Edited By Michael Gilligan on 08/04/2012 21:32:21
1400 forum posts
Right on !
|old mart||28/01/2020 19:42:43|
|1098 forum posts|
Regarding genuine Mitutoyo, I was the only person in the factory who had their combination square set in the calibration system, and getting that approval was high praise for the set, made in Japan. I gave Brian, who did the certification of the employees measuring tools, my Rabone 12" rule to look at, and he said that it was a fine rule, but NBG as a straight edge.
I have two Mitutoyo surface gauges, one Japanese, and the other Brazilian, and they are equally well made.
|Mick B1||28/01/2020 21:29:34|
|1357 forum posts|
Ah, 'Zen And The Art Of' - I read that in my mid-20s when I still had a motorbike, and thought it was a Really Important Book.
I lent it to my dad, an academic very much in touch with 'the high country of the mind', and he liked it too, but his take on it was as a psychological thriller where the philosophy represented the progressively-distorted musings of a clever man declining into mental illness - which undoubtedly the Phaedrus character did, though IIRC he may have recovered at least partially.
I still don't know which of us was nearer the truth....
474 forum posts
I see the point in that. Tonight at our biker café meet I took some rings I had made & everyone thought they were beautiful. I do too, but they are no where near as good a quality or accuracy that I want. Same point. Not that I would need some of the equipment that some of you have. At my level I would not be able to read that accurately anyway. Strive for perfection.
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