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Can we have a really clear distinction between Silver Soldering and Brazing

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Michael Gilligan22/01/2020 18:11:32
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Posted by Anthony Knights on 22/01/2020 17:57:12:

I cannot believe this subject has run to three pages.

.

Possibly because you didn’t read the question [?]

MichaelG.

.

Can we have a really clear distinction between Silver Soldering and Brazing

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/01/2020 18:12:29

Baz22/01/2020 19:51:26
323 forum posts

Suppose this has run to four pages because its winter and too cold to go into workshop, everyone sat in armchair with iPad or laptop😊

Can we have a really clear distinction between silver soldering and brazing?

Apparently not.

Dave Wootton22/01/2020 20:03:24
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Thanks for explaining the difference between brazing and bronze welding Stueee, had a look on Youtube very inspiring. I've used bronze welding a lot on classic British bikes, I'm working on a Norton twin at the moment, seems to resist the vibration better than my welding!

I had an interesting call from a friend who is a great fund of knowledge on matters classic and vintage motorcycle, who had seen the thread. He believes the term bronze welding came around almost as a trade name, and was used to differentiate between the old hearth brazed lugged frames and parts and the more modern ( at the time ) bronze welded frames. an early form of spin?

Dave

Bill Chugg22/01/2020 20:03:37
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Posted by Chris TickTock on 20/01/2020 21:51:31:

Feel free to add, subtract amend?

Chris

I think that request worked Chris

winkwink

Bill

Bill Chugg22/01/2020 20:05:40
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Posted by Dave Wootton on 22/01/2020 20:03:24:

Thanks for explaining the difference between brazing and bronze welding Stueee, had a look on Youtube very inspiring. I've used bronze welding a lot on classic British bikes, I'm working on a Norton twin at the moment, seems to resist the vibration better than my welding!

I had an interesting call from a friend who is a great fund of knowledge on matters classic and vintage motorcycle, who had seen the thread. He believes the term bronze welding came around almost as a trade name, and was used to differentiate between the old hearth brazed lugged frames and parts and the more modern ( at the time ) bronze welded frames. an early form of spin?

Dave

Good old featherbed frame I suspect ?

Bill

IanT22/01/2020 20:37:19
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Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/01/2020 18:11:32:
Can we have a really clear distinction between Silver Soldering and Brazing

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/01/2020 18:12:29

Everyone seems to have their own definition in this area Michael.

Mine is that 'brazing' generally occurs above 450c and 'soldering' below this temperature - the filler material dictating the temperature required to make the joint.

So when using silver 'solder', the process is actually a form of brazing e.g. silver brazing - although I also certainly do use the term 'silver soldering' which is in common use in the UK. However there are clear differences between the physical joints made when soldering and brazing - as made clear in the link I posted way back on Page 1

https://vacaero.com/information-resources/vacuum-brazing-with-dan-kay/1345-brazing-vs-soldering.html

However, I'm sure others here will wish to debate this distinction further- so I look forward to reading further opinions on pages 5,6,7 etc....

Regards,

IanT

PS you're right, it's too cold down my Shed at the moment...

Michael Gilligan22/01/2020 20:50:23
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Posted by IanT on 22/01/2020 20:37:19:
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/01/2020 18:11:32:
Can we have a really clear distinction between Silver Soldering and Brazing

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/01/2020 18:12:29

Everyone seems to have their own definition in this area Michael.

[…]

.

I was merely quoting the title of the thread, Ian angel

I’ve already stated that the answer to the question is NO ; and have explained why.

... So I don’t think I will be playing this game any longer.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/01/2020 20:54:10

Bill Chugg22/01/2020 21:01:11
1009 forum posts
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Ian T

However, I'm sure others here will wish to debate this distinction further- so I look forward to reading further opinions on pages 5,6,7 etc....

Sorry to disagree but I cannot share your enthusiasm.

Bill

old mart22/01/2020 21:03:01
1101 forum posts
113 photos

Four pages now.

As for a really clear distinction, there isn't one. There is no particular difference between the two names, the process is pretty much the same. Its a shame that the word solder was adopted instead of silver brazing. The solder process as far as I'm concerned employs an iron and lead based alloys and the only exception is in plumbing.

The argument could go on for 100 pages and still be no nearer to resolution.

Mike Poole22/01/2020 22:14:07
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Of course we could call silver soldering and brazing hard soldering. Hard soldering doesn’t seem such a popular term as it used to be.

Mike

Brian John23/01/2020 00:57:44
1454 forum posts
579 photos

I usually call it hard soldering (Australia) and sometimes silver soldering. Brazing always seems to mean many things to different people which is why I do not use it !

larry phelan 123/01/2020 13:43:11
579 forum posts
11 photos

Simple, Silver soldering is done with silver solder rods, which cost mad money.

Brazing is done using brass rods, which are quite cheap and the joint is stronger, just needs more heat.

Bill Chugg23/01/2020 14:44:50
1009 forum posts
7 photos
Posted by larry phelan 1 on 23/01/2020 13:43:11:

Simple, Silver soldering is done with silver solder rods, which cost mad money.

Brazing is done using brass rods, which are quite cheap and the joint is stronger, just needs more heat.

 

Larry, I like this post - short and to the point.

 

I do wonder what Keith made of it all with his post

 

Hi folks

Words fail.

There's an expression involving a horse and water but I can't recall it at the moment.

Perhaps I should just keep my thoughts to myself. Is that the bugler playing "The Last Post"?

Edited By 34046 on 23/01/2020 14:45:08

Neil Wyatt23/01/2020 16:14:44
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Posted by Dave Wootton on 22/01/2020 20:03:24:

Thanks for explaining the difference between brazing and bronze welding Stueee, had a look on Youtube very inspiring. I've used bronze welding a lot on classic British bikes, I'm working on a Norton twin at the moment, seems to resist the vibration better than my welding!

I had an interesting call from a friend who is a great fund of knowledge on matters classic and vintage motorcycle, who had seen the thread. He believes the term bronze welding came around almost as a trade name, and was used to differentiate between the old hearth brazed lugged frames and parts and the more modern ( at the time ) bronze welded frames. an early form of spin?

Dave

He's thinking of SifBronze - which is actually a pretty standard brass spelter (copper zinc alloy with a touch of silicon).

Much beloved of LBSC who probably had a sponsorship deal with them. Yet it must have been a poor choice for boiler work due to the extra heat and unsuitability for hot water...

Neil

Andrew Johnston23/01/2020 16:44:59
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Posted by 34046 on 23/01/2020 14:44:50:

Words fail.

A single word will do - pettifogging. smile

Now back in vogue having recently been used in the US Supreme Court.

Andrew

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