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SillyOldDuffer01/01/2020 11:10:03
5127 forum posts
1073 photos
Posted by Mark P. on 31/12/2019 15:22:07:

Thanks, looks like I'm stuck with W10 then.

Mark P.

May not be a bad thing!

Although staying with an obsolete operating system is attractive in that the Old Dog avoids learning New Tricks, it's also a way of storing up massive pain. Not unlike avoiding a trip to the dentist until a neglected filling turns into an abscess, infected gums and emergency extraction of several teeth!

The problem is the change challenge increases with each succeeding upgrade and computer technology moves faster than most. Upgrading from XP to Windows 7, not too bad; Windows 7 to Windows 10, not too bad. Jumping from XP to Windows 10 is a case of 'Mind the Gap', and although there will never be a Windows 11, Windows 10 is being actively upgraded. The longer you leave it the worse it gets.

Worst-case scenario is finding a much loved 20 year old computer loaded with familiar retro software has died and cannot be repaired. Replacing it would be just a matter flashing the cash, unless the out-of-date owner is baffled by two decades of ignored progress! Jargon, touch screens, webcam, displays, different internet settings, software no longer available or 10 versions beyond, different GUI, and file system layout, privacy settings, and decisions demanded galore. Quite likely when an old computer bites the dust, that the replacement won't be compatible with the owners antique printer and scanner: most hassle!

A computer owner who stays on top will be able to use his tools until he decides not to bother. One who deliberately avoids change is likely to be forced out abruptly. Not everyone has the energy and interest needed to make major changes. One of the best things about manual lathes and milling machines is they haven't altered much for over a hundred years. Not so computers. If you need a computer, it pays to keep up.

Dave

Bandersnatch01/01/2020 17:09:58
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1397 forum posts
40 photos

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 01/01/2020 11:10:03:

it pays to keep up.

Or to put it another way "you pay to keep up". And you certainly will when MS decides it's got enough people dependent on Win-10 (many/most through "free" upgrades from earlier versions) and changes to a subscription model.

SillyOldDuffer01/01/2020 18:06:43
5127 forum posts
1073 photos
Posted by Bandersnatch on 01/01/2020 17:09:58:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 01/01/2020 11:10:03:

it pays to keep up.

Or to put it another way "you pay to keep up". And you certainly will when MS decides it's got enough people dependent on Win-10 (many/most through "free" upgrades from earlier versions) and changes to a subscription model.

Which is why my preferred platform is Linux! But it pays to keep up-to-date with that too.

Good news - no need for anyone in my squad to keep up with pop-music, Noah Jupe, dance trends, fashion, ships', GOAT or 9...

Dave

Bill Davies 228/01/2020 13:51:02
154 forum posts
10 photos

I've attempted to upgrade Win 7 to Win 10 on an Asus laptop. I was not able to perform an install or download an ISO image, both failed on the license key. The laptop came with Windows pre-installed, so it has an OEM key. MS has previously indicated it was a 'legal' version.

I'm considering buying Win 10, but I'm not sure whether I can preserve my existing programs or would end up with a clean OS installed but no applications. In which case, a new machine would be the better option.

I hope these might help anyone considering a last-ditch free update to Windows 10. It's past the Jan 14th deadline but many sites 'suggest that it's still possible.

Bill

SillyOldDuffer28/01/2020 15:40:20
5127 forum posts
1073 photos
Posted by Bill Davies 2 on 28/01/2020 13:51:02:

... I was not able to perform an install or download an ISO image, both failed on the license key. The laptop came with Windows pre-installed, so it has an OEM key. MS has previously indicated it was a 'legal' version.

...

Bill

Perhaps Microsoft have pulled the plug on free upgrades? Certainly, Windows 7 is out of support, and I don't think MS promised to keep the free upgrade offer open indefinitely.

More hopefully, it might be that the OEM key stored inside the machine is invalid for this upgrade. The OEM key is a general purpose convenience in the factory, not quite as straightforwardly simple as an ordinary key. Instead of the built in OEM key, you may have to use the key printed on the Certificate Label stuck under the machine - it's different! Printed labels have since been phased out: new computers store the licence key in the BIOS, where it can't get lost, and should always just work. In future OEM key problems should vanish.

Although unlikely if it's already running W7 an older laptop might not be man enough to run Windows 10 - insufficient memory, unsupported devices etc. W10 won't install on a machine that can't run it.

Second question, installing W10 from scratch. A new W10 is rather more complicated than uplifting from W7 or 8 to W10 using Microsoft's automated process. Uplifting leaves the old programs in place with a reasonable chance they'll still work, whereas overwriting W7 with W10 wipes the slate clean. Data can simply be saved and copied back, but applications are often irksome. Installers depend on an analysis of the configuration (operating system, DLLs and hardware), plus licence validation, rather than just doing a straight copy.

May be more trouble than it's worth? Could just stay on W7 until a new computer is bought, and then tackle the migration problem.

Dave

Mike Poole28/01/2020 18:03:32
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2321 forum posts
52 photos

Anyone still on Windows 3.11 ?

Mikedevil

Bandersnatch28/01/2020 18:29:16
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1397 forum posts
40 photos
Posted by Mike Poole on 28/01/2020 18:03:32:

Anyone still on Windows 3.11 ?

Or indeed Windows for WorkGroups: where MS went out of its way to make it easy to set up a local network. Unlike today where they increasingly hide the OS from the user.

Despite my earlier protestations con Win-10 (or perhaps because of them), i decided to do another trial installation on a spare machine. That was about 10 days ago. To this day (although I've admittedly only tried occasionally) I've not managed to get it to talk properly to my rather extensive LAN.

Bill Davies 228/01/2020 19:28:48
154 forum posts
10 photos

Thanks Dave, that's very helpful. It's the usual thing with a PC that you've had for a while; full of bought but also free software that may no longer exist or run in the later OS.

Bandersnatch, I have an old Vista laptop that has a dead battery but will run (well, it did last time...) that perhaps I should retrieve files from. On the other hand, it's like the stuff in the loft - can you remember what it is, and would you miss it if it just diisappeared one day?

Bill

Emgee28/01/2020 19:37:11
1347 forum posts
212 photos
Posted by Mike Poole on 28/01/2020 18:03:32:

Anyone still on Windows 3.11 ?

Mikedevil

I'm still using DOS for machine programming so a bit before Win 3.11

Emgee

Philip Powell28/01/2020 21:34:28
66 forum posts
15 photos
Posted by Emgee on 28/01/2020 19:37:11:
Posted by Mike Poole on 28/01/2020 18:03:32:

Anyone still on Windows 3.11 ?

Mikedevil

I'm still using DOS for machine programming so a bit before Win 3.11

Emgee

Depends on the version of MS/DOS as with win 3.11 you had to install DOS first then windows, they both existed together.

Phil

Bandersnatch28/01/2020 22:19:34
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1397 forum posts
40 photos
Posted by Bill Davies 2 on 28/01/2020 19:28:48:

Bandersnatch, I have an old Vista laptop that has a dead battery but will run (well, it did last time...) that perhaps I should retrieve files from. On the other hand, it's like the stuff in the loft - can you remember what it is, and would you miss it if it just diisappeared one day?

If you mean connecting the laptop with a Win-10 machine in a temporary network configuration, I think you'd be better off transferring the files using a usb drive (either a flash drive or an external usb hard drive) rather than configuring Win-10 for a network.

Or did I completely misunderstand?

Neil Wyatt28/01/2020 22:32:53
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Moderator
17064 forum posts
690 photos
76 articles

Hmm.

It pays to keep up.

Got really annoyed with my computer the other day because android type gestures on the mousepad didn't work...

Let's be honest, you can open almost any program these days and access most of its functionality straight off, and even a device like a new phone is easy to pick up because so many things are intuitive, like swiping.

When did you last see an 'app' on your phone that neeeded instructions?

Neil

Bill Davies 228/01/2020 23:21:10
154 forum posts
10 photos

Hi, Bandersnatch.

No, I meant with an external drive or memory stick. It's family important things like photos and videos that I use to take care to store on several drives. Even on hard disks there seems to be a gradual loss due to periodic unreadable files. And of course all those pdfs that we store, in the hope that we will read them.

Or do manuals even exist any more, Neil? The extenal drive I bought yesterday, to backup my files, doesn't seem to come with support, go and talk to 'the community.' But I suppose you can argue our community is the same, i.e., the repository of relevant knowledge.

Bill

Steviegtr28/01/2020 23:31:31
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469 forum posts
126 photos

I about 18 months ago bought a new pc. From p.c world,,, I know. But I did. I specified a SSD as well as the standard drive. Also asked them to put the windows 10 on the SSD. So when I switch on the pc It starts immediately. A tip from a gaming friend made me ask for this. I guess it does not stop hackers accessing this as Christmas before last I had my Paypal account compromised to the tune of over £9,000. Luckily it all got sorted out & I did not loose any money. Since then I have Bitdefender installed & it seems to do a pretty good job. It is about £40 a year but gives peace of mind. Windows 10 has been very good. It does do lots of up dates but they are mainly security issued addressed.

William Bolton30/01/2020 21:18:17
3 forum posts

I'm running WIN 7 I received the warnings from Microsoft about support ending for Win 7. I then received an "update" from Microsoft last week for Microsoft Word. I let it download and guess what? I no longer have Microsoft Word. It stopped dead. I have downloaded Libre Office and it is a terrific free alternative but oh dear, what a coincidence Mr Gates! If you run windows 7 do not accept any further updates from a Microsoft product.

Anthony Knights31/01/2020 10:37:07
309 forum posts
117 photos

I have tried installing Office 97 on Win7 and Win10 machines and it worked OK. You can't beat having the original installation disks. On the Windows 7 system, I have disabled the ethernet and network devices to stop it going on line, because when it updates, it stops some other programs working properly. I use it in a dual boot configuration with Linux Ubuntu. This can go on line and can also access the Windows files, which comes in handy sometimes.

Circlip31/01/2020 11:56:24
1019 forum posts

Surprised that no-one has mentioned Microsloths download to give a black screen on Win 7s start up. Still, what most forget is that we support Bill's World benevolence fund every time we fall for the M/S cons.

Regards Ian..

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