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Conecutters to produce rough MT1 and MT2 shaped holes?

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Andrew Tinsley21/12/2019 12:02:29
987 forum posts

I have stored my milling cutters, for years, in wooden blocks having the appropriate shank sized holes drilled into them.

I would like to do the same sort of thing for my machine reamers on MT1 and MT2 shanks. They both have roughly the same taper angle and I started looking for cone cutters that would approximate the same taper angle. None of the cheap Chinese cone cutters that I have are suitable (too large an angle). In the distant past I have seen adverts for cone cutters with a smaller angle and wondered if they would have been suitable. The problem is that no manufacturer (understandably!) defines the rough taper.

I wondered if anyone else has found something suitable? Alternatives would be to make a single flute cutter to the average taper angle. Or maybe have two pieces of thick ply suitably spaced with a small hole in the bottom piece and a corresponding larger hole in the upper piece.

Any other ideas for storing such machine reamers without damaging each other would be very welcome.

Andrew.

Phil P21/12/2019 12:09:21
592 forum posts
164 photos

I think you have almost answered your own question when you mentioned the two bits of ply with different sized holes.

I store my morse taper drills in blocks of wood, I just drill a hole suitable for the small end to the full depth I need, then open out the top part of it with a larger diameter till the drills fit without wobbling about. I always spray some sort of lubricant into each hole as well.

If you were to make a morse taper hole in the wood, the drills would tend to stick in the holes.

Phil

PS. Morse taper information is readily available should you need it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_taper

Edited By Phil P on 21/12/2019 12:10:53

Rod Renshaw21/12/2019 12:25:44
69 forum posts

Hi

I faced a similar problem a few years ago and solved it by grinding tapers on 2 woodworkers flatbits of suitable sizes. I think the larger one was for cutting a 5/8 " diameter hole but can't really remember.

The steel of which these bits are made is just a little too hard to file easily but it grinds easily, the degree of accuracy needed is not high and I did the job on my off-hand grinder. If you make the new sloping edges each slightly convex then the hole grips at the top and bottom of the tool taper so the tools are held securely. I agree about the lubricant, which also helps with rust prevention.

Give each edge a little back clearance for easier cutting but in practice the detail does not seem to matter much, it will cut it's way into wood whatever the geometry of the edge. The bits are quite cheap and can be bought singly and can be retained for further use.

Christmas Greetings

Rod

Andrew Johnston21/12/2019 12:31:11
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5198 forum posts
599 photos

I store MT1, 2, 3 and 4 drills, and sleeves, on a piece of MDF above my lathe. I just drilled parallel holes so that each taper goes through about 2/3 to 3/4 of the length. The same would work for reamers, although I prefer to keep my reamers separately packed in drawers. Completely OTT to make tapered holes. smile

Andrew

larry phelan 121/12/2019 12:39:55
606 forum posts
11 photos

I store all my large size Morse Taper drills in short lengths of plastic pipe, one end plugged with a wooden plug This way they never get damaged I just mark the size on the tube. It,s simple and cheap

not done it yet21/12/2019 13:12:50
4168 forum posts
15 photos

I agree with Andrew, but if you insist, there are morse taper cutters out there. Roughing and finishing varieties. Cheap chinese (some likely so cheap, they only approximate to a morse tapersmiley). Just depends on how determined you are in achieving your goal.smiley

Andrew Tinsley21/12/2019 13:39:16
987 forum posts

Thanks all,

Andrew, I tried the single hole in MDF and found that it provided poor location, such that adjacent reamers could clash. It obviously works for you, but I didn't much like it. Everyone is different!

NDIY, I have not got the faintest desire to produce anywhere near an accurate MT taper, I want one with some slop, although not as much as I got using Andrew's method. An accurate MT taper in wood is a pain as the tapers frequently stick. I did a trial with an ancient 2MT reamer and found it an awful solution,

Phil and Rod, your two ideas are well worth trying. I will give the stepped holes a try first and report back

As an aside I have had milling cutters and drills and taps in wooden blocks for maybe 40 years and never had a rusting problem. I have used softwoods exclusively. Maybe the rusting problem is specific to some hardwoods?

Thanks again for the suggestions,

Andrew.

Derek Lane21/12/2019 14:21:48
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307 forum posts
70 photos

I made this for my 1 and 2MT bits and pieces for my woodturning lathe the hole is just a straight hole and holds everything just where I want it(mind you I think I need to enlarge it as run out of room).

As can be seen, angled each level for easy access to each one. Top row 1MT and lower 2MT

I need to make a second one for all the morse taper drill bits that I have

May need to modify for taller pieces.

20191221_140548 (1024x768).jpg

20191221_140605 (768x1024).jpg

not done it yet21/12/2019 14:55:58
4168 forum posts
15 photos

I have not got the faintest desire to produce anywhere near an accurate MT taper, I want one with some slop, although not as much as I got using Andrew's method. An accurate MT taper in wood is a pain as the tapers frequently stick. I did a trial with an ancient 2MT reamer and found it an awful solution,

I didn’t remotely suggest it should be accurate, the roughing cutters should work close enough. Slop is easily introduced - use a hand drill? Fine grained hard wood might be far better than resinous soft wood - but obviously avoiding acidic varieties.

Likely needed a wider-speed test, on different timber varieties, to come to any sensible conclusion before condemning the method as ‘awful’. Sapele, Brazilian mahogany or ramin would likely work? Not sure of the pH of iroko but, apart from the silica angle, used to be among my favourites,

Personally, I would go with two strips with different sizes holes (or sufficiently narrow ‘depressions in the bottom bar to prevent clashing while allowing easy location). I would certainly not be insistent on, or even considering, making tapered holes for myself!smiley

Edited By not done it yet on 21/12/2019 14:56:40

Pete Rimmer21/12/2019 15:03:49
594 forum posts
28 photos

I did this a while ago. I took a rusty old MT drill and cut the spiral bit off just leaving the plain shank, then took a 5" grinder with cut-off disc and cut two wedges right down the taper to create a 2-flute cutting tool. I pre-drilled a piece of plywood with a grid of holes then used this tool to ream each hole out to a morse taper. Was easy and quick and worked perfectly.

jimmy b21/12/2019 16:37:25
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599 forum posts
37 photos

I 3D printed mine.

Jim

Andrew Tinsley21/12/2019 16:38:38
987 forum posts

Just back from experimenting in the workshop. Phil P's suggestion of drilling a long hole with a diameter to suit the small end of the taper and then counter boring with a larger hole to suit the thicker end of the taper, works a treat.

No sticking and very little slop, if any. A perfect solution and easy to implement too. A little more work than Andrew's method of a single hole in a sheet of MDF, but much better vertical location.

Thanks to all those that replied, pity I didn't think of this solution in the first place!

Andrew.

Neil Wyatt21/12/2019 16:40:28
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Moderator
17385 forum posts
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Posted by not done it yet on 21/12/2019 14:55:58:

Fine grained hard wood might be far better than resinous soft wood - but obviously avoiding acidic varieties.

I've found obeche, mahogany and MDF all work well. Avoid oak at all costs unless lined.

Neil

Tim Stevens22/12/2019 16:21:26
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1143 forum posts

Did Neil mean limed oak (and not lined) perhaps? It would make sense as the lime would tend to counteract the remaining acid.

And I have had good results with MDF - which works best when oiled (with anything to hand) to keep the dust in check.

Tim

JasonB22/12/2019 16:25:23
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Moderator
17315 forum posts
1865 photos
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No he meant line the oak with something to stop it coming into contact with the ferrous metal as the tannic acid in the oak will rust the steel.

old mart22/12/2019 17:53:06
1251 forum posts
116 photos

I just have a horizontal aluminium plate of about 1/8" thick with holes in it which allow the Morse taper shanks to fit at about 7/8 of their lengths. This would not be suitable if the plate was tilted, but the already mentioned twin skin wood with two different size holes would allow a fair degree of tilt.

Howard Lewis22/12/2019 18:25:55
2927 forum posts
2 photos

Some of my MT shanks are just dropped through a suitable size hole in a bit of 16 SWG Ali. Others in plain holes drilled a soft wood shelf behind the lathe (The remains of a neighbour's bargeboards! )

In this instance, "near enough" can be "good enough" Not worth digging out the MT reamers for this.

Howard

Chris Gunn22/12/2019 19:57:02
300 forum posts
16 photos

Andrew, why not store them the other way up? if you use a wood block deep enough, just drill the hole a touch oversize to suit the reamer, and bobs your uncle.

Chris Gunn

old mart22/12/2019 21:34:49
1251 forum posts
116 photos

This 10 degree milling cutter with a 3/8" tip would do, although the angle is a bit steep, MT is about 3 degrees. The shank diameter is 3/4" and the cutter could be useful for other jobs after using it on wood.

**LINK**

Nicholas Wheeler 123/12/2019 15:58:37
309 forum posts
19 photos
Posted by Chris Gunn on 22/12/2019 19:57:02:

Andrew, why not store them the other way up? if you use a wood block deep enough, just drill the hole a touch oversize to suit the reamer, and bobs your uncle.

Chris Gunn

Because then you'll have a rack full of identical tapers sticking up with no way of knowing what tool attached to. Socket sets are stored with the sized end facing up for the same reason.

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