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Imperial Fasteners

Renovating an old Smart & Brown Lathe

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Avon20/12/2019 17:25:01
19 forum posts
2 photos

Hi, I'd be grateful for some advice on where to source imperial sized countersunk and socket head screws to replace some rather worn ones on my v old Smart & Brown Model M Mk 1. If I could confidently state what size they are I know that would help, but that too is proving difficult. The smallest is about 5/32 and probably 32 tpi.

Grateful for your thoughts.

Michael Gilligan20/12/2019 17:41:07
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15024 forum posts
645 photos

My wild guess is that those will be #8 32 UNC

What lengths do you need ?

MichaelG.

noel shelley20/12/2019 17:44:33
90 forum posts

5/32" X 32tpi is whitworth. or 3/16" bsf. But 32 tpi could be 6 or 8 unc or 10 unf .Precise dimentions are needed to pin this one down !

DMB20/12/2019 17:56:38
978 forum posts

BSW & BSF may still be available from Blackgates/GLR/ maybe even Reeves or EKP. Try Google??

Michael Gilligan20/12/2019 17:56:57
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15024 forum posts
645 photos

Perhaps I misinterpreted about 5/32

MichaelG.

Avon20/12/2019 18:57:40
19 forum posts
2 photos

Gentlemen, thank you all for the prompt responses, I have been Googling for Britain with only very limited success. I think I'm going to have to very carefully measure the screws (there is more than one type) and post that info - cant do it at the moment as away from home.

Also, I want to get exactly the right threads as a number need holes retapped as they've not been loved and for some the thread has almost been obliterated - I'm hoping I can identify the thread from the relevant screw and work from there.

I'll have a look at the companies suggested and see what I can achieve.

Have a great Christmas.

Martin Connelly20/12/2019 19:20:16
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1026 forum posts
122 photos

A tpi thread gauge in your Christmas stocking would be useful. I have sourced screws like this on Ebay.

Martin C

Bazyle20/12/2019 19:30:17
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5009 forum posts
198 photos

Shame on you lot not immediately identifying 5/32 BSW as MECCANO normal screw thread - before they succumbed to metrication.

John C20/12/2019 19:33:11
250 forum posts
92 photos

Try Spalding Fasteners www.spaldingfasteners.co.uk Wide range and great service.

No connection etc,

John

Avon20/12/2019 19:33:29
19 forum posts
2 photos

Martin, to my shame I do have a tpi thread gauge but the results seem inconclusive! i'm going to spend more time at the bench and carefully assess the tpi and my use of the guage (maybe the ones I have are a bit cheap!).

Bazyle, what a thought - I shall see if I can find any in the loft!!!

Avon20/12/2019 19:41:19
19 forum posts
2 photos

thanks John - they look to be a useful source. I'll give them a call when I'm more convinced of the sizes I need.

old mart20/12/2019 21:00:32
1251 forum posts
116 photos

The threads I have come across when working on the museums Model A are BA and BSF. No unified or Whitworth have surfaced.

Michael Gilligan20/12/2019 21:24:29
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15024 forum posts
645 photos
Posted by Bazyle on 20/12/2019 19:30:17:

Shame on you lot not immediately identifying 5/32 BSW as MECCANO normal screw thread - before they succumbed to metrication.

.

Why the shame ?

Are you suggesting that Smart & Brown used Meccano screws ?

... if so, what were the Meccano part numbers for the countersunk ones, please ?

MichaelG.

Hopper21/12/2019 02:20:57
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4165 forum posts
89 photos
Posted by Avon on 20/12/2019 19:33:29:

Martin, to my shame I do have a tpi thread gauge but the results seem inconclusive! i'm going to spend more time at the bench and carefully assess the tpi and my use of the guage (maybe the ones I have are a bit cheap!).

Bazyle, what a thought - I shall see if I can find any in the loft!!!

One of those magnifying glasses on a stand with a ring light might be in order for under the Christmas tree then! I couldn't get by without one in my workshop. Even the low cost ones work a treat.

Robin King21/12/2019 09:31:36
103 forum posts
1 photos

It'd be worth emailing Martin Kirsopp at Emkay Screw Supplies with an enquir He's very helpful with odd one off imperial screws etc for machine rebuilds. Web search will find his website and contact email address.

SillyOldDuffer21/12/2019 11:19:49
5367 forum posts
1090 photos
Posted by Bazyle on 20/12/2019 19:30:17:

Shame on you lot not immediately identifying 5/32 BSW as MECCANO normal screw thread - before they succumbed to metrication.

Hurrah for Meccano, but is that true? As far as I know Meccano parts are still linked to 1/2" hole spacing and the fasteners are still 5/32". Even though Meccano has been Made in France since 1981...

Being a coarse thread 5/32" BSW is excellent for Meccano but it's unsatisfactory as a general purpose fastener. I know at least one serious Meccano modeller who prefers M4 because they're less likely to come undone due to vibration. For the same reason it's hard to imagine 5/32" BSW being used by Smart and Brown. My guess would be BSF or UNF depending on date, less likely BA.

Dave

Michael Gilligan21/12/2019 13:38:39
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15024 forum posts
645 photos

Here’s an interesting aside, whilst we await Avon’s measurements and/or photos:

**LINK**

https://www.usmeccano.com/pdf/newmeccanoscrew.pdf

MichaelG.

old mart21/12/2019 19:04:55
1251 forum posts
116 photos

You bunch of monkeys are more interested on your Meccano than my reply stating what threads are actually on Smart & Brown lathes.

Howard Lewis21/12/2019 19:40:27
2927 forum posts
2 photos

The screws may be 5/32 diameter, and 32 tpi, but the Whit are 55 degree thread form, where the UNC 6-32 are 60 degrees, and therefore, not universally interchangeable.

If the thread is BA, it is not 5/32 diameter.

3 BA is 0.161" or 4BA is 0.1417" diameter, and neither is 32 tpi.

I think that Thread Gauges are needed to act as referee.

Howard.

Michael Gilligan21/12/2019 20:28:45
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15024 forum posts
645 photos
Posted by old mart on 21/12/2019 19:04:55:

You bunch of monkeys are more interested on your Meccano than my reply stating what threads are actually on Smart & Brown lathes.

.

dont know ... But you mentioned Model A

The question is about “Smart & Brown Model M Mk 1”

Do you have any evidence that they used the same threads on both ?

MichaelG.

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