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Toolpost dilemma

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Lou Powderly07/12/2019 23:01:38
7 forum posts
5 photos

When I bought my ML7 in 1974 I fitted it with a Myford Dickson quick change toolpost and was very pleased with it and about fifteen years ago bought an additional three toolholders which were apparently made in this country and fitted the toolpost correctly. I have recently upgraded to a Super 7 and I now have a lot more revs available and so have started using carbide tipped tools to a such an extent I now need more toolholders but I have found it impossible to buy toolholders that fit my original toolpost at a reasonable price. Many suppliers claim to supply the real McCoy but they are just not machined sufficiently accurately to mate with the toolpost.

I have had a look around and a well known supplier markets an Eloris type wedge toolpost for the Myford which looks to be a possible answer and for which I could make additional toolholders as required. However I don't know anybody who can give me an opinion on a comparison of rigidity between the two. I would therefore be pleased for any words of wisdom on this matter.

Thor08/12/2019 06:17:53
1150 forum posts
32 photos

Hi Lou,

There are people who have made their own toolholders for the Dickson type toolposts (may be a bit more difficult to make than the Aloris ones):

***Link*** - drawing

***Link*** - making one

***Link*** - making

Thor

Chris Evans 608/12/2019 09:22:47
1528 forum posts

Ive bought a few expensive toolholders for my genuine Dickson post and few have fitted. Some budget priced ones from RDG fit well. Maybe worth trying one ?

Lou Powderly08/12/2019 16:43:12
7 forum posts
5 photos

m

Thank you, it is certainly an option which I have considered and have not ruled it out.

Chris Evans 6

Thanks Chris. I have tried that route with very little success I'm afraid. About two years ago I bought a set of five toolholders from the firm that you mentioned and they were extremely upset when I sent them back with a note saying that I thought they had sent me a bag of rejects by mistake. They thought that I was being facetious but in fact I genuinely thought that was the case. The machining was appalling with the Vs not cut to depth, the T slot cut too shallow to allow entry of the retaining piston and the height adjuster screw too far to the rear which fouled the locking cam and rotated the adjuster when attempting to lock the toolholder. I was given a refund and assured that future purchases would be correct but when I ordered a couple more to test the water a few months later nothing had changed and I had to rely on a friend with a surface grinder to correct the errors. I asked some other suppliers for a firm committment that their toolholders would fit the original toolpost and not just the ones they were currently selling. They declined by saying that they probably used the same source as my previous attempts. Hence my need to reach a decision.

Chris Evans 608/12/2019 19:11:11
1528 forum posts

Lou, that is totally the opposite of what I found. A case of pay your money and take a chance, I bought Bison brand and they did not fit. If I had a local supplier it would be worth taking the toolpost along to save all the posting to and fro with poor fitting parts.

David George 108/12/2019 19:34:42
avatar
1016 forum posts
320 photos

Hi Lou I have an original toolpost with a w stamped in the channel. Here is a copy of the tool holder that fits on my lathe.

20191208_192606_003.jpg

David

John Reese09/12/2019 00:51:25
817 forum posts

I have two lathes fitted with Aloris clone tool posts. An advantage to Aloris is the availability of extra tool holders at relatively low cost. The Aloris design is quite tolerant of variations in tool holder dimensions. The Dickson tool holders are more expensive to make than Aloros clones. The Dickson tool holders require the C-C distance of the Vs to be exact for it to fit the tool post.

My vote is for Aloris or its clones.

I have a Dickson tool post and 3 tool holders. It sits on the shelf and will remain there until I need a tool holder of larger capacity than the Aloris provides.

JohnF10/12/2019 10:11:15
avatar
908 forum posts
114 photos

Myford Dickson tool holderS00Another sketch made for a chap who wanted it in metric, taken from an original Myford/Dickson holder. I too purchase some from Chronos some years age and had to modify them, they were not so hard and a carbide cutter sorted the job. The best ones were those made by Darren ?? Now long gone I think?

Lou Powderly11/12/2019 00:09:37
7 forum posts
5 photos

David,

Thanks for your input. My toolholders from a number of years ago also have the "W" which I understand indicates Western Engineering which is a firm which at one time made the toolholders for Myford at Beeston. However what I wondered was how the Dickson and the Aloris compare in terms of rigidity and therefore machining capability and freedom from chatter.

John Reese

Thank you for your reply. Does your last sentence suggest the the Dickson is more rigid that the Aloris type?

Johnf

Thank you for your reply. I have an Imperial based workshop and after translation I confirm that my Dickson toolholders are indeed the same size as the items that you use. However what I really wanted to know was how the two system vary in machining capability; which would mean that if they both come out as about the same there is no need to spend a lot of time making the complicated toolholders when I could switch to the Aloris type and dash off a few toolholders when required and get on with the main task of making steam engines

Ron Laden11/12/2019 06:54:26
avatar
1548 forum posts
262 photos

My Warco 918 came with a Dickson type tool post, do I take it that it is only a genuine Dickson if the holders have a W stamped on them and the post has 3 tool stations mine only has 2 and no W on the holders.

Tony Pratt 111/12/2019 07:06:50
963 forum posts
3 photos
Posted by Ron Laden on 11/12/2019 06:54:26:

My Warco 918 came with a Dickson type tool post, do I take it that it is only a genuine Dickson if the holders have a W stamped on them and the post has 3 tool stations mine only has 2 and no W on the holders.

I'm sure 'Dixon' went to the wall years ago & you will be safe to say the Warco offering will be an Eastern copy of the original, can't comment on the 'W' issue.

Tony

JasonB11/12/2019 07:08:23
avatar
Moderator
16919 forum posts
1818 photos
1 articles

2 or 3 positions depends on the size of the post, the smaller sizes only take two.

Could be a genuine post with aftermarket unmarked holders.

Its hardly surprising that the aftermarket ones vary in fit when even the drawings posted in this thread have differing dimensionsdevil

Of the 20plus holders I have only 4 are originals but they all seem to fit, the last few needed a bit of encouragement but at about £10 each fair enough. Anyone tried a Bison one on a Dickson post?

Tony Pratt 111/12/2019 07:10:29
963 forum posts
3 photos
Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 11/12/2019 07:06:50:
Posted by Ron Laden on 11/12/2019 06:54:26:

My Warco 918 came with a Dickson type tool post, do I take it that it is only a genuine Dickson if the holders have a W stamped on them and the post has 3 tool stations mine only has 2 and no W on the holders.

I'm sure 'Dixon' went to the wall years ago & you will be safe to say the Warco offering will be an Eastern copy of the original, can't comment on the 'W' issue.

Tony

Sorry I didn't realise you were talking about a pre loved M/C?

Tony

Michael Gilligan11/12/2019 08:13:35
avatar
14624 forum posts
634 photos
Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 11/12/2019 07:06:50:
Posted by Ron Laden on 11/12/2019 06:54:26:

My Warco 918 came with a Dickson type tool post, do I take it that it is only a genuine Dickson if the holders have a W stamped on them and the post has 3 tool stations mine only has 2 and no W on the holders.

I'm sure 'Dixon' went to the wall years ago & you will be safe to say the Warco offering will be an Eastern copy of the original, can't comment on the 'W' issue.

Tony

.

Dickson was the correct spelling

MichaelG.

Tony Pratt 111/12/2019 09:27:31
963 forum posts
3 photos

Ok, I think 'Dickson' went to the wall years ago.smiley

Tony

Ron Laden11/12/2019 14:05:09
avatar
1548 forum posts
262 photos

A picture below of the Dickson type post that came with my s/h 918 lathe. I dont know if it was from a supplier or home workshop made but whichever it is certainly very good quality. The post came with 12 holders, 8 quality ones which match the post and a set of 4 black holders which are definitely from a supplier.

The black holders fit the post but not as well as the quality ones plus they are smaller in some of the dimensions so lighter duty. Although the black ones do fit the post it is only just when it comes to clamping them down, I have noticed that the cam spindle rotates further around and with one of them I think a bit of extra leveridge and it would pass the cam high point and be loose again. Having said that they do work and I have had no issues when using them. Unfortunately it is not that helpful here as there is no markings on them so I dont know which supplier they came from.

dsc07278.jpg

Edited By Ron Laden on 11/12/2019 14:05:46

mechman4811/12/2019 18:32:11
avatar
2531 forum posts
379 photos

Of the 20plus holders I have only 4 are originals but they all seem to fit, the last few needed a bit of encouragement but at about £10 each fair enough. Anyone tried a Bison one on a Dickson post...

I have a Bison tool post set up on my WM250V-F; of the 18 holders I have there are two with a 'W - M' stamped on, so a right mix 'n' match some were bought from Harrogate exhib', eBay, RDG ( usual disclaimer ) & all fit the tool post without any 'encouragement' maybe I've been lucky buy so far so good.

George.

RAPHAEL VAL GOLEZ 111/12/2019 20:19:15
55 forum posts
2 photos

Hi just putting in my own experience. I have the original Bison Dickson type tool post with 7 original tool holders. I bought the RDG tool post which is a Dickson clone just to see if it is compatible. I bought the whole set just incase the tool holders won't fit on my Bison then I can still use the RDG set on its own. Bison tool holders are more or less twice the price of the RDG. The tool holder fits really good on both tool post. My only issue is the RDG's adjustable set knob fouls the locking cams of the Bison but I can still lock it tight. Its the diameter of the setting knob that is slightly larger on the RDG. I did test the Bison tool holder on the RDG tool post and it fits/aligns very well and its tight on the lock and the cams is not fouling the adjuster knobs base. So my current combo set up is the RDG tool post and tool holders plus my existing Bison tool holders. Since then I have added more RDG tool holders and works fine with me. I accumulated a total of 25 tool holders 7 of which are the original Bison tool holders. The rest is from RDG cheap, Chinese and happy with it.

 

Raphael

Edited By RAPHAEL VAL GOLEZ 1 on 11/12/2019 20:20:36

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