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Colchester Student Mk1 Won't Start

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Herman van der Merwe13/08/2020 20:27:36
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174 forum posts

Great job! Especially the cuppa .. Brain loves it. He thinks he is the special friend!

Richard Kirkman 114/08/2020 11:44:42
300 forum posts
740 photos

No coffee for me, only tea. Much better. Brain is picky

A man who wants the topslide and QCTP from the colchester forum has a spare half nut lying around somewhere, so if he can remove that from his lathe then I can get an unbroken one!

However, I'm not sure that will happen before I go back to uni, so I will just continue with the braze operation for next week and use that as a potential temporary fix!

No one else seemed interested in any parts, so I may try ebay next.

Richard Kirkman 115/08/2020 19:00:23
300 forum posts
740 photos

Been busy with other things today, but I did get some of the lathe assembled!

I'm liking how it looks, polished is nice. Bling is best

Looks like I'm brazing on Wednesday. And James says he'll try to get me the spare half nut asap. Ideally I wouldn't even use mine anymore.

The apron may be back on, but it's just to give me some more workspace as I seem to have lathe parts everywhere. No feed shaft or leadscrew installed since that'll be a pain to put in and out again just to get the half nut back in when finished. So I may be able to reassemble the rest of the lathe and use it without feeds/threading

The worm box was just placed for show, since there's nothing to hold it in!

Also, colchester spares does not have the right motor cover for me, so it looks like I'm going to have to make one from the old splash back that was on the lathe when I got it. It's just a sheet of steel so should be fine. Not louvered though...

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Edited By Richard Kirkman 1 on 15/08/2020 19:02:38

Phil Whitley15/08/2020 20:48:11
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1250 forum posts
147 photos

Richard, If the deal doesnt go ahead on the QCTP and topslide, let me know, as I wouild love one! Cash waiting!!

Phil

Mat Stoeckle15/08/2020 21:16:22
9 forum posts

looking good! you're doing all this work and not painting the castings .. are you pressed for time or what's your rational? The only reason I'm painting is because I figure WHILE I have it apart like this I might as well .. Looking forward to your next installment .. best threads to read with morning coffee

Richard Kirkman 116/08/2020 01:23:37
300 forum posts
740 photos
Posted by Phil Whitley on 15/08/2020 20:48:11:

Richard, If the deal doesnt go ahead on the QCTP and topslide, let me know, as I wouild love one! Cash waiting!!

Phil

AHHH no, Phil. If I'd known sooner you could have had it for next to nothing. I'll let you know. But I'm pretty sure James wants it. Plus if I'm getting the half nut from him I can't really just cancel. I would have loved for it to go to you, so I'm disappointed too! Who knows, hopefully, he'll pull out for you! I've been saving this weeks video to watch tonight, I can't wait to see what you've been up to!

Hi Mat, thanks for your post, I am pressed for time. I have some turning I want to get done before I get back to University. So I will paint it next year. This year can be considered more of a research year on how to take it to pieces, since I've pretty much taken everything off now, so I know exactly how to do it next year, it should be really easy! It's nice to hear someones still entertained! I do worry that this thread is far too long at this point, but people like you make it worth continuing (and for the help I still need!)

Mat Stoeckle16/08/2020 03:40:55
9 forum posts

Meh, I wouldn't worry about how long or detailed the thread becomes .. for those readers who restore their own vintage tool, the more detailed the better and any side tangent can bring up something the readers may need to know for the next step of their tool restoration .. it's community teaching and I for one can't get enough of it So, make sure you keep providing a structure of a thread that people fill with additional info

I'm about to start chiseling the paint off of my stand and bed .. I tried chemical stripping but the original filler just becomes a gooey mess .. and still sticks .. very unpleasant .. wire-wheels are messy/dusty and I can't / dont' want to afford sandblasting / dustless blasting at this point .. so, blood sweat and tears it will be with a couple of chisel pointed files .. A guy on youtube is restoring a Monarch 16 .. just came across his way of paint stripping yesterday .. check it out ... Machining 360: Monarch 16 CY restoration P15: Stripping and Painting .. Beautiful machine and great restoration .. we should all make these kinds of videos

Herman van der Merwe16/08/2020 09:00:55
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174 forum posts
Posted by Mat Stoeckle on 16/08/2020 03:40:55:

I'm about to start chiseling the paint off of my stand and bed .. I tried chemical stripping but the original filler just becomes a gooey mess .. and still sticks .. very unpleasant .. wire-wheels are messy/dusty and I can't / dont' want to afford sandblasting / dustless blasting at this point .. so, blood sweat and tears it will be with a couple of chisel pointed files .. A guy on youtube is restoring a Monarch 16 .. just came across his way of paint stripping yesterday .. check it out ... Machining 360: Monarch 16 CY restoration P15: Stripping and Painting .. Beautiful machine and great restoration .. we should all make these kinds of videos

Now you know why I took mine to bare metal. My lathe had seven layers of paint. The last three refused to budge with anything and I then used the trusted old method. Coat it with brake fluid. The next morning all the paint was soft except the original and the second layer. These were gooey as was all the putty and filler below it. Then I used a head gun with sharpened scrapers and a wire brush on a polisher to get this mess removed.

The Monarch guy spent AGES to get the inside of his lathe clean. And had many injuries caused by the rough sand paper finish from the casting process. He earned my respect as I know what a thankless job this is.

Make sure your scrapers are sharpened correctly and the paint comes off quickly for a while and then you need to sharpen again. Use a single cut file to do the sharpening.

Looking good Richard. I would still do the brazing as you will then have learned a lot! I am just a bit concerned that the very blingy handle can blind you when you switch on your new light!

Phil Whitley16/08/2020 13:05:30
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1250 forum posts
147 photos

Mat, if you have a compressor, you could use a needle gun (wear eye protection!!) they are really good at removing hard enamel paints from castings,BUT, if you get back to sound paint, there is no point in removing it, it just makes extra work, and damages the filler on the castings, far better to fill up the damage on the good paint, then flat, prime and paint, and the finish you get is better than a bare metal repaint unless you put an enourmous amount of work into filling the castings before primer. The original castings were totally covered in filler, which was then flatted and primed, and it is very hard to replicate this highly skilled process today. Have a look at the Colchester factory films (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQaAKUAzK0w) This is my lathe which I resprayed. I removed all the repainting with paint thinners untill I got back to the original damaged finish, filled the damage, flatted, primed and resprayed, the whole job took about a week! Unfortunately if you have already damaged the original filler with chemical strippers, and it has gone soft and sticky, it will have to be removed, but the way to go is to cover the whole casting with a thin layer of filler, then flat , prime and paint. the contrast you get between paint on bare casting and paint on filler makes the machine look like a piebald pony! See my repaint here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TYqaiPS8b8

 

Edited By Phil Whitley on 16/08/2020 13:15:36

Edited By Phil Whitley on 16/08/2020 14:09:24

Phil Whitley16/08/2020 13:08:57
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1250 forum posts
147 photos

Richard, Don't worry about the QCTP, my bad, I should have jumped at it, you getting a good half nut is more important, Que sera sera! If in the fullness of time it is still available, I will have it!

Phil

Richard Kirkman 116/08/2020 13:38:15
300 forum posts
740 photos

Phil, I might have a little something for you instead. I seem to remember when I saw your lathe that it was missing a little oiler from the end of the shaft, and I happened to get a spare one from Traci. So I'll bring it to Hull and see if I can get it to you somehow. Just the oiler on the end of here, pic below. I think you just had a nut or something. It won't make a huge difference, but if I've got one spare then why not!

I still plan to machine my original topslide to take a QCTP one day, so that will be interesting.

img_20200816_125024.jpg

Anyway, I've had a quick tidy up and a little play this morning. I've been trying to clear workspace so I can start to make a few things. Need to sort birthday presents for my flat mates... Much better to make them something than to buy. Point is that meant deciding to stop painting for the year completely. No more painting this year. So I had some bits to put back together

First was the gearbox lid. I put all the oilers back in then put the oil cover on too. it's not bolted down fully since it'll need to come off again, but its better to store it there than anywhere else. And yes, the colour difference isn't the best. Definitely not going to have a matching lathe for a year. This may annoy a few, but It will be fully painted eventually. The colour is actually quite different. The new dove grey is much lighter. However, I like the colour and I'm not too bothered about it being an original colour, as long as it looks nice.

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Then, I needed to polish up this tag for the end cover. I also polished all the little hammer in pin heads, so they're all shiny too

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Not that it needed to be shiny, but now it can patina again and look nice for a while

img_20200816_123105.jpg

And then reinstalled onto the semi painted/unfinished end cover. Once again, good enough for now, but not permanent

img_20200816_124046.jpg

I really am a fan of the light grey. It's going to look very nice when it's done properly

img_20200816_124433.jpg

Then I cleaned up the gears that I'm replacing

img_20200816_124602.jpg

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I also put my gear back onto the swing frame, so that takes up less space too

img_20200816_125016.jpg

You can see why I need to replace this gear

img_20200816_125145.jpg

However, I cannot seem to get this last gear off. The nut on the end is really tight and I can't get it to budge. That gear is okay, but if i'm replacing the other then I may as well do both.

img_20200816_130606.jpg

I think I'll probably fit the belts back on next and try to align the motor perfectly with that string method or some way. I need to get it right this time! Since hopefully the oil seal won't leak so it shouldn't have to come off again for a while

Edited By Richard Kirkman 1 on 16/08/2020 13:47:02

Mat Stoeckle16/08/2020 13:58:16
9 forum posts

Hey Herman, yeah I haven’t fully decided to go that route. Phil’s method makes somewhat sense to me, leaving intact paint alone. I used a wirewheel and got this blotchy type lepropsy pattern. I’m just afraid it’ll continue to come off even with new bondo on top .. Phil, how did you ascertain the quality of the paint below?

Richard, great progress

Phil Whitley16/08/2020 14:18:59
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1250 forum posts
147 photos

Mat, if it wont scrape off easily then leave it and fill the damaged areas. Try using a blowgun (if you have a compressor) to see if the paint lifts. To be honest the original finish is usually so good that only areas where there has been mechanical damage, or the paint has literally worn through will require filling.

Phil

Phil Whitley16/08/2020 14:21:35
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1250 forum posts
147 photos

Richard, yes the oiler is missing on mine, that would be great! The new grey paint looks excellent! that knurled(?)nut should only be finger tight, hence the knurling. There should be two gears on there, one in use, and one just stored there. They are swapped over for different pitches and feeds.

Phil

Edited By Phil Whitley on 16/08/2020 14:22:41

Edited By Phil Whitley on 16/08/2020 14:26:23

Mat Stoeckle16/08/2020 15:12:01
9 forum posts

Phil, that's what had me worried, I wirewheeled the c**p out of it and thought I'm down to solid stuff .. then took the blowgun to it and little specs lifted off everywhere .. oh well ... I'll keep wirewheeling until nothing lifts any longer and then bondo the thing .. I just ordered a full gallon of it .. I'm talking about the stand btw for now .. haven't dealt with the bed yet ....

Herman van der Merwe16/08/2020 16:48:25
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174 forum posts
Posted by Richard Kirkman 1 on 16/08/2020 13:38:15:

However, I cannot seem to get this last gear off. The nut on the end is really tight and I can't get it to budge. That gear is okay, but if i'm replacing the other then I may as well do both.

img_20200816_130606.jpg

I think I'll probably fit the belts back on next and try to align the motor perfectly with that string method or some way. I need to get it right this time! Since hopefully the oil seal won't leak so it shouldn't have to come off again for a while

Edited By Richard Kirkman 1 on 16/08/2020 13:47:02

Did you remove the grub screw in the nut? If not, remove it, screw a bolt in there, put a strap wrench on the nut and put tension on it. While under tension give the bolt a wack. Will come loose ...

If yours does not have a grub screw, drill a hole and use a pin C-spanner to undo it.

Edited By Herman van der Merwe on 16/08/2020 16:50:57

Richard Kirkman 118/08/2020 14:34:28
300 forum posts
740 photos

A day behind now! I haven't been up to much.

I managed to get the knurled nut off with my band clamp and some mole grips

img_20200816_175554.jpg

img_20200816_175712.jpg

Then it popped off quite easily

img_20200816_181159.jpg

And the gears have all been replaced. No more chipped teeth!

Then I got to work on the half nut. I ground a chamfer on each end with a really rough 24grit belt on my belt grinder, it made light work of it. I haven't gone down to a point, as i don't want to take any more off.

img_20200816_182813.jpg

The little clamps kept slipping and not tightening properly, so i filed a groove for the angle iron to sit in

img_20200816_183518.jpg

It is very close quarters, so I'm not sure how easy it will be. But they're the smallest clamps that will fit. I can't clamp it any other way and I don't have any smaller clamps. So this'll have to do. Hopefully, I'll be going to braze tomorrow

img_20200816_184437.jpg

Then I've spent today packaging the topslide and chuck guard for James. Very securely so there should be no trouble with it. The new lights are going in today too, so hopefully there will be better lighting for me to see with

Herman van der Merwe18/08/2020 18:02:05
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174 forum posts

I would remove the big C-clamp. Braze a nut or two in the angle iron with a bolt through it and tension the shaft with this. That big clamp is going to move with heat and it is just simply awkward, huge and made in China.

I would still clamp the shaft with a short section of smaller angle iron with the grooved C-clamp riding on the corner of the smaller angle iron. You need stability when things get hot. Remember to wear gators over your safety boots. Last thing you need for some blob of brazing to jump loose and into your boot. This is not welding where you can grit your teeth while your flesh is going up in smoke.

Have fun brazing.

Your lathe is starting to look good. Your fingernails not ...

Richard Kirkman 119/08/2020 17:58:47
300 forum posts
740 photos

Today has been fun!

Brazing is definitely an interesting topic. But let's start with the fun bits

My friend has a very large lathe, its a bit of a workhorse. Although I've never seen him use it! It made my skin crawl, a fantastic machine that just needs a good clean

img_20200819_082332.jpg

Anyway, so I had 2 things to braze at my friends, the rear bearing housing and the half nut

Last night I took the housing and ground down the broken area so it was smooth

img_20200818_201309.jpg

img_20200818_201517.jpg

So this should all be clean and good to braze

I did a sample on some mild steel, but I found that the mild steel glows differently to the cast iron, so I should have tested on some of that instead. Oh well, I've learned a lot today

img_20200819_121325.jpg

I found tacking the shaft to be very difficult, so difficult that I just decided to not bother and just braze it all together, then if it all worked, I would have to clean it up on the lathe anyway.

I found that there was not enough meat on the lower bit of the shaft to clamp it properly into the angle iron, so they had not joined at the right angle. I am not going to bother wasting any more time with this part. I'm just going to wait for the spare one to get here

So, onto the housing. The housing was very tricky since the hole had a very thin wall, which I ended up meltingcheeky

So this then became just a very large area to fill with braze.

img_20200819_121556.jpg

I did change tips and get to a better flame so it was sufficient for heating

All filled up, but a mess. I went to use the other mans lathe to clean up all of the excess bronze, but not to really touch the metal.

img_20200819_142655.jpg

I don't have any pictures of the actual turned surfaces, but there will be one in the next post. Its been a long day and I'll do it tomorrow

img_20200819_145241.jpg

It was quite a nice lathe. A harrison model. Still, it needed a good clean as well, but at least it worked.

I also used the lathe to drill the center of 2 bolts out to 5mm

img_20200819_141659.jpg

Then I tried to tap them m6, but the tap got stuck. It is still in there, but I didn't want to risk trying to get it out at my friends. I'll do a better job at home. I'll get them tapped somehow.

Anyway, the housing is machined down closely enough so i will be able to finish it off with files and sandpaper or whatever. Good progress. Then I'll just put the rest of the lathe back together

My only issue will be getting the hole that i have filled redrilled in the correct location, but I have a plan!

Richard Kirkman 119/08/2020 18:04:29
300 forum posts
740 photos

This is the lathe I was using. It felt like a very long bed. The owner is about a foot shorter than me, so this lathe was quite low. And the ceiling was low too. So I knocked my head a few times by accident!

img_20200819_141115.jpg

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