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Record 25 vice handle

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Andrew Tinsley13/11/2019 15:53:32
926 forum posts

I have put up with the s shaped kink in the Record vice handle for long enough. Can anyone tell me what type of steel I should use for making a straight one?

Before you ask, I didn't bend it, the previous owner must have got a lump hammer to it!

Andrew.

Mark Rand13/11/2019 16:58:20
802 forum posts

Bright mild steel...

Neil Wyatt13/11/2019 17:28:19
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16752 forum posts
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Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 13/11/2019 15:53:32:

I have put up with the s shaped kink in the Record vice handle for long enough.

I thought they came like that

Neil

Andrew Tinsley13/11/2019 17:48:54
926 forum posts

Mark, I am surprised at your mention of bright mild steel. With all the maltreatment that the handles get, I thought it would be something more exotic!

Neil , maybe you are correct at that, most second hand vices seem to come with a built in kink.

Thank you both,

Andrew.

Trevor Drabble13/11/2019 18:24:11
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205 forum posts
5 photos

Andrew , Have you tried talking with Irwin , the owner of Record , either for the spec or maybe even a complete replacement handle ?

Trevor .

Mike Poole13/11/2019 19:10:28
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2187 forum posts
52 photos

If the handle of a vice is bent then it must have been abused, a mild steel replacement should not bend if it is just tightened by hand, using a tube should be just to make life easier not to give extra purchase beyond what a man can apply without an aid. Vices can be broken with extreme over tightening.

Mike

Brian Oldford13/11/2019 19:14:49
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586 forum posts
4 photos
Posted by Mike Poole on 13/11/2019 19:10:28:

If the handle of a vice is bent then it must have been abused, a mild steel replacement should not bend if it is just tightened by hand, using a tube should be just to make life easier not to give extra purchase beyond what a man can apply without an aid. Vices can be broken with extreme over tightening.

Mike

Words of experience? laugh

Clive Foster13/11/2019 19:16:54
1890 forum posts
62 photos

Agreed. Mild steel should be fine. Unmachined bright drawn will be stronger in bend due to the stressed area close to the outside produced by the drawing process.

Some American references suggest AISI 1144 which looks to be a good material as being stronger than mild steel and inherently slightly springy making it less likely to bend. Not a clue what the UK / Euro equivalent is. Certainly not a so called EN number for sure. Other folk suggest 4130 chrome moly which is getting silly!

Clive

Mike Poole13/11/2019 19:24:33
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2187 forum posts
52 photos
Posted by Brian Oldford on 13/11/2019 19:14:49:
Posted by Mike Poole on 13/11/2019 19:10:28:

If the handle of a vice is bent then it must have been abused, a mild steel replacement should not bend if it is just tightened by hand, using a tube should be just to make life easier not to give extra purchase beyond what a man can apply without an aid. Vices can be broken with extreme over tightening.

Mike

Words of experience? laugh

I have seen a broken vice but it wasn’t my handiwork. My vice is a 5” jaw Record and the tommy bar is still straight, I occasionally use an old fork leg as assistance but only because I find that it’s easy to bruise my office worker hands a bit to easily these days.smiley

Mike

David George 113/11/2019 19:49:56
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972 forum posts
314 photos

The handle is made from EN16T the original is forged in situ one end is heated and drop forged then put through the spindle and the second end is induction heated and forged. I have made a replacement handle by turning a small step on each end of the shaft and then hammering on a turned end sleeve. There was a slight champher on the sleeve and the shaft protrudes slightly. I then peened over the end with a ball pained hammer. Thread through and repeat for other end.

David

Mark Rand13/11/2019 20:10:06
802 forum posts

OK, EN16T is about 50% stronger than BMS. If you're heavy handed, it might be needed. laugh

Andrew Tinsley13/11/2019 22:24:52
926 forum posts

Thanks everyone,

There is little difference in cost betwween BMS and EN16T, so I will go for the latter. Despite the past ill usage, the vice seems to be in VGC, so I shall treat it to a new handle and jaws, maybe even some paint after I have cleaned it up.

Andrew.

not done it yet13/11/2019 23:40:08
3576 forum posts
15 photos

Anyone can bend the handle (or break the vise) by abusing the design. The handle should bend before the vise breaks; the handle should not be long enough to cause a problem (unless abused). The usual problem is the operator not the vise - if the vise is of good quality.

Kiwi Bloke14/11/2019 09:30:27
265 forum posts
1 photos

As above. It is surely a good idea to 'design' the handle to fail by bending before the vice is subject to excess force?

Have a look at this **LINK**

...and the follow-up on the DIY construction of a serious vice!

not done it yet14/11/2019 10:12:26
3576 forum posts
15 photos

I’ve already seen those videos. The vise tests should be enlightening, if one was not aware of the facts beforehand - and quality counts - but that vise he made is remarkable! But nobody should be abusing their vise like he did!

I will never need a better heavy vise, than the one I have now (and the smaller one it replaced). It’s old and not entirely perfect but it will outlast me. I would have both on the bench if I had sufficient space...

There are also a couple of very small vises around, which work perfectly adequately within their size constraints, Then there is the old (original aluminium type) B & D workmate. Horses for courses as usual.

robjon4414/11/2019 11:15:13
111 forum posts

Hi all, then just for the icing on the cake you could fit a suitably fat O ring at each end, under the head, to forestall that eye watering moment whilst in a rush, when the handle slides down from a near vertical position & traps the web between your thumb & first finger creating a torrent of Industrial Language, just a thought.

Cheers, Bob H

ega14/11/2019 11:35:28
1339 forum posts
109 photos
Posted by David George 1 on 13/11/2019 19:49:56:

The handle is made from EN16T the original is forged in situ one end is heated and drop forged then put through the spindle and the second end is induction heated and forged. ...

This seems entirely credible. However, in Scott Landis' "The Workbench Book" the author (who apparently visited the Record factory) states that the woodworking vice handles were cold-forged at both ends.

Does this suggest the use of different steel for woodworking vice handles and that metal workers are more likely to abuse their tools?!

Edited By ega on 14/11/2019 11:56:40

Bazyle14/11/2019 12:52:40
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4796 forum posts
187 photos

A lot of the fancier woodworking vices have wooden handles, albeit a little thicker.
I have a 4in vice on a plate to put on a workmate to use outside for dirty jobs. I dropped it and it landed on the handle and bent it. This might be some kind of indication of the strength of material.

peak414/11/2019 12:52:46
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902 forum posts
85 photos
Posted by robjon44 on 14/11/2019 11:15:13:

Hi all, then just for the icing on the cake you could fit a suitably fat O ring at each end, under the head, to forestall that eye watering moment whilst in a rush, when the handle slides down from a near vertical position & traps the web between your thumb & first finger creating a torrent of Industrial Language, just a thought.

Cheers, Bob H

I was just about to pass a similar comment; I used a short length of thick wall reinforced rubber tubing, the sort of stuff used for air lines or gas welding bagging. Car heater, or oil pipe would do, but just make sure it has fibre, rather than the steel wire braiding often found in hydraulic pipes.
Bill

Ian P14/11/2019 13:14:12
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2254 forum posts
91 photos

This is one vice you wouldn't want to bend the handle on, maybe it a vice that you wouldnt even dare to uselaugh

Bugatti Vice

https://tula-bug.co.uk/vices/

 

Ian P

PS in the region of £5K!!!

Edited By Ian P on 14/11/2019 13:15:15

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