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Jacobs model 6414 chuck - removal

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Paul Relf-Davies27/10/2019 13:36:24
74 forum posts
1 photos

I appreciate that is question isn't directly ME related, but it occurs to me that ME enthusiasts amy also have experience with antique tools.

I have a (1950s) Black and Decker model HU-1 power drill and the matching (contemporary - model. D7638) wood-lathe 'attachment'. One missing piece is the powered center, which would have replaced the chuck, when the drill was set up to power the lathe.

I see no rason why can't make a replacement, if not to the original design, at least such that it would all fit together & function.

The chuck (a Jacobs model 6141) is supposed to unscrrew from the the drill body and the lathe center screws on in its place.

My problem is that I can't see how to unscrew the chuck. There is no way to lock the spindle and I can't imagine that the user was required to disassemble the drill (to somehow grip the other end of the spindle) just to convert the drill for the lather.

Any ideas...?

If it helps, my chuch is identical to this one on eBay (except mine says made in Sheffield UK)

cheers

Paul

vintage engineer27/10/2019 13:48:25
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194 forum posts
1 photos

Does this help? **LINK**

Clive Brown 127/10/2019 13:51:25
283 forum posts
7 photos

Try putting say a hex. allen key in the chuck, or the chuck key, if it has one, in one of the 3 holes and giving it a whack. with a mallet. Don't overdo it though.

Just looked at the link, seems to be  no key.

Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 27/10/2019 13:53:32

Paul Relf-Davies27/10/2019 13:55:01
74 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by vintage engineer on 27/10/2019 13:48:25:

Does this help? **LINK**

alas no - I've already found that video...that is a completely different style of chuck...the model 6141 does not have any through bolt.

not done it yet27/10/2019 14:01:40
3544 forum posts
15 photos

Is there a screw in the end of the drill spindle? If so, undo it first. Left handed thread.

Paul Relf-Davies27/10/2019 14:02:28
74 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Clive Brown 1 on 27/10/2019 13:51:25:

Try putting say a hex. allen key in the chuck, or the chuck key, if it has one, in one of the 3 holes and giving it a whack. with a mallet. Don't overdo it though.

Just looked at the link, seems to be no key.

Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 27/10/2019 13:53:32

unfortunately not... this chuck has an intersting cam-locking mechanism. The 3 jaws are linked (held together) by rubber fillets. You insert your bit, and hand tighten the collar, then to lock it down, you use an alan key or screwdriver to turn a cam in the main body of the chuck., This pushes on the jaws, locking them against the conical collar. As a result, the cam operated face that pushes up on the jaws is where the locking bolt would be in the more common style of Jacobs chuck.

In this model however, as far as I can see, the chuck should just screw off, if I can just work out how the drill spindle shouid be locked...

Ian P27/10/2019 14:14:35
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2243 forum posts
90 photos

That sounds like the same chuck fitted to the early Wolf 'Cub' pistol drills. The cam mechanism you mention is operated with an Allen key inserted radially into the conical screw hex recess.

Put the key in the recess and give it a tap with a hammer in the undo direction. There is no need to lock the spindle as there is enough mass to resist the inertia.

Ian P

old mart27/10/2019 14:22:48
775 forum posts
76 photos

I had a B & D D720 drill back in the late sixties and when I took the cover off the side of the handgrip to look at the switch, I was horrified to see that the insulation had gone hard and was cracking off. This was in the early eighties, the drill got binned immediately, especially as it was metal and predated double insulation. I suggest you check all of these old drills for safety, especially the earth wire connection.

Paul Relf-Davies27/10/2019 14:23:22
74 forum posts
1 photos

Thanks.. I'll give it ago....

That said, I have also come across some photos of old B&D literature/advertisements...It seems the HU-1 was first manufactured in 1946. I saw an ad dated1952 which exactly matches my model, as well as another dated 1955 showig the same drill but with a later type of chuck (the kind referred to above with the central locking bolt).

So it could be that the chuck on my drill is non-removable and that the lathe attachment was intended for the post '55 models of the drill...?

Regardless, I should be able to make up a driven center drill bit. It will just mean I will lose a couple of inches of lathe capacity.

Clive Foster27/10/2019 14:43:30
1885 forum posts
59 photos

Further to the comments about fitting the chuck key and whacking to unscrew the chuck.

I was told that best practice is to tighten the chuck up first on something of a size that puts the ends of the jaws and face of the chuck pretty much level. This was said to ensure that all the whacking force went straight through the chuck into the body and thread. Allegedly with nothing gripped bits inside the chuck could move dissipating the force.

Not done chuck removal that way for years but back in the day it seemed to work fine.

Clive

Paul Relf-Davies27/10/2019 14:55:25
74 forum posts
1 photos

Thanks all for you input

John Reese27/10/2019 21:50:17
797 forum posts

That model chuck is probably the worst Jacobs ever designed. It was used primarily on "home utility" drills. Replace it with a real chuck, either keyed or keyless. Your chuck appears o have a male thread for mounting. Most chuks have a female thread in the back. I think it is a 3/8-24 thread. A short piese of threaded rod is all that is needed to adapt the newer chucks to your drill.

Mike Poole27/10/2019 23:22:59
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2185 forum posts
52 photos

I do not have first hand experience of this drill and chuck fitting but sometimes there is a screw to retain the chuck, open the jaws fully and look to see if a screw is present at the bottom of the jaw orifice. This may not apply to your machine at all but can often apply to drills with a reverse function.

Mike

Michael Gilligan28/10/2019 07:25:25
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14235 forum posts
621 photos
Posted by John Reese on 27/10/2019 21:50:17:

That model chuck is probably the worst Jacobs ever designed. […]

.

”Horses for courses” ... I have one of those chucks mounted on a wooden ‘file handle’ and find it very useful as an oversized pin-vice.

Yes: Put something more suitable on the B&D ... but unless the rubber is disintegrating, re-use the chuck.

MichaelG.

Howard Lewis28/10/2019 10:31:03
2439 forum posts
2 photos

Most people will know this, but for any who don't:

The older screw on drill chucks, for non reversing drills, had a male 3/8 UNF thread. Normal Right Hand thread.

The newer ones on drills that can reverse carry a left hand threaded screw in the bottom of the chuck This is to prevent the chuck unscrewing when the drill is operated in reverse. Open the jaws fully, and it becomes visible. Rotate the screw (clockwise ) to remove it.

These chucks carry a 1/2 UNF thread. Again, a normal Right Hand thread.

The removal method in both cases is to insert the chuck key into one of the holes, and give a smack with a mallet, so that the chuck unscrews.

If the chuck is fitted to a Jacobs taper, (various types and sizes ) wedges, of the appropriate size are need to prise the chuck off the taper. Wedges are available from some of the usual M E suppliers, such as Arc Euro Trade.

Just place the wedges, in opposition to each other between the chuck and the body, and squeeze the wedges together in the jaws of a vice. The chuck should then come off.

HTH

Howard

Nick Clarke 328/10/2019 13:33:06
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418 forum posts
12 photos

If yours is the same model chuck as on this Wolf Cub drill this link shows you how to remove the chuck at about 6 mins in.

**LINK**

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 28/10/2019 13:37:02

Ian P28/10/2019 13:53:03
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2243 forum posts
90 photos

That (video) brings back memories!

I bought a Wolf Cub drill sometime in the late 50's and I think the cost was £4-19-6

John Reese is right about the chuck, its accuracy was limited by the fact that the conical outer sleeve parts (which centres the jaws) had a square thread that had no self centering action, and plenty of clearance.

Ian P

peak429/10/2019 02:09:12
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901 forum posts
85 photos

I've one of these myself.
Here's Jacob's advice on removal

See also this Indestructables walkthrough

Bill

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