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duncan webster28/09/2019 22:25:07
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I've just received a pop up telling me that support for Windows 10 is coming to an end and I should restart my computer to get an update to a version of windows which will be supported. Anyone got an opinion on whether this is a good idea, or is the evil empire trying to scam me?

Chris Evans 628/09/2019 22:38:42
1506 forum posts

I've had the update message for a while. I did try to install it but message came as insufficient space and use external drive/memory stick. I have tried the memory stick and not been successful in updating (read total dummy)

Now decided to leave well alone.

Bandersnatch28/09/2019 22:49:00
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Vanishingly unlikely that support for Windows 10 is ending ....it's the current Windows version.

 

Support for Windows 7 is ending however. If you indiscriminately install all the "Important" updates for Windows-7, that copy will be auto-updated to Windows 10 at some point.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 28/09/2019 22:51:54

ega28/09/2019 23:36:28
1340 forum posts
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Posted by Bandersnatch on 28/09/2019 22:49:00:

Vanishingly unlikely that support for Windows 10 is ending ....it's the current Windows version.

 

Support for Windows 7 is ending however. If you indiscriminately install all the "Important" updates for Windows-7, that copy will be auto-updated to Windows 10 at some point.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 28/09/2019 22:51:54

Interesting point re auto-update; can you give chapter and verse?

Did I waste my time in upgrading to Win 10 via the Microsoft "create media" site?

Edited By ega on 28/09/2019 23:36:59

Grindstone Cowboy29/09/2019 00:41:32
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I think the message would have indicated that support for a particular build of Windows 10 is coming to an end and that you should install the next release - still Windows 10, but a later version.

Nigel Graham 229/09/2019 00:59:12
445 forum posts

When Microsoft introduced Windows 10 it insisted it had no plans to produce any further WIN-number systems, but only to "up-grade" that one system ( "up-date" is more accurate!).

I have not seen anything to indicate that will change, but I know many users have found the automatic process very frustrating.

I think a more serious problem would arise if MS starts to make us rent the software rather than buy it outright. Adobe already does that with its Win-ZIP and pdf-converter; and I think some CAD publishers do too.

'

Having had previous, and very bad, experience with WIN-10 I do not want it. If forced though, would I still be able to use Word, Excel and possibly Access files going back over many years, or continue to use software such as TurboCAD and some photo-faffing and other third-party programmes, or indeed the MS-'Office' set I had with WIN-XP?

I may be wrong but I gained an impression that the Office-type programmes allied to W10 are very stripped-down; with MS favouring the "smart"-phone based entertainments and Facebook market, over using the computer for serious purposes.

Bandersnatch29/09/2019 01:40:19
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Posted by ega on 28/09/2019 23:36:28:

Interesting point re auto-update; can you give chapter and verse?



Not exactly since I didn't keep the KB references - I just declined the update and moved on - but:

I never let Windows Update do its thing automatically. I check what each update is going to do to my system and then decide whether to install it (very interesting sometimes and not just in this context).

On at least two occasions this year, a so called "important update" (used to be called "critical" .... important to whom?) when checked, amounted to an auto update to Windows-10. Same thing has happened at least once on my Windows-8 installation.

Some related info here.

jimmy b29/09/2019 05:36:55
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I've tried several times over the last month to install the new update.

It gets so far and then gives up!

I'll just plod along until something happens.

Jim

Martin Whittle29/09/2019 07:50:42
82 forum posts
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JIm there is a troubleshooter for this. I think this is caused by an error in an internal list of updates on the machine. Try:

Tap windows key on keyboard

Click on the settings icon (gear symbol)

Select update and security (last item)

Select trouleshoot (5th item on the list on left)

Select windows update (4th item on the list under 'get up and running) - then run the troubleshooter.

Hope this works for you; it often has for me!

jimmy b29/09/2019 09:00:16
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Thank you Martin,

I tried that this morning, still no joy!

Jim

jimmy b29/09/2019 09:00:16
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Thank you Martin,

I tried that this morning, still no joy!

Jim

jimmy b29/09/2019 09:34:43
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Martin, I FULLY took your advice and went through the troubleshooter. The problem turns out to be, needing to restart BEFORE starting the update!

Thank you again Martin.

Jim

ega29/09/2019 09:54:48
1340 forum posts
109 photos
Posted by Bandersnatch on 29/09/2019 01:40:19:
Posted by ega on 28/09/2019 23:36:28:

Interesting point re auto-update; can you give chapter and verse?



Not exactly since I didn't keep the KB references - I just declined the update and moved on - but:

I never let Windows Update do its thing automatically. I check what each update is going to do to my system and then decide whether to install it (very interesting sometimes and not just in this context).

On at least two occasions this year, a so called "important update" (used to be called "critical" .... important to whom?) when checked, amounted to an auto update to Windows-10. Same thing has happened at least once on my Windows-8 installation.

Some related info here.

Thanks for the interesting linked article. I couldn't see any dates in this and wonder if it applied only during the period that a free Win 10 upgrade was available; this has now ended but an upgrade is apparently still possible (for those that want it) via the media creation site that I mentioned.

MS would obviously like all Windows installations to be Win 10.

SillyOldDuffer29/09/2019 10:57:21
4866 forum posts
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Posted by duncan webster on 28/09/2019 22:25:07:

I've just received a pop up telling me that support for Windows 10 is coming to an end and I should restart my computer to get an update to a version of windows which will be supported. Anyone got an opinion on whether this is a good idea, or is the evil empire trying to scam me?

I did a major upgrade to Windows 10 last week on two machines without more than the usual multiple reboots and switching on of unwanted features. (Linux does upgrades far better!) One good thing, there's a new screen explaining Privacy issues, which is a considerable improvement on silently unlocking all the doors as Microsoft did before. I didn't get anything new I wanted but it boots faster, hurrah!

Microsoft's support regime has changed. Previously, buying a version - NT, XP, Vista, 7, 8 etc. - got 5 years 'Mainstream' support followed by 5 years of 'Extended' support. Mainstream support consists of help, feature upgrades, bug fixes, performance improvements and security patches. Extended is security patches only.

Windows 10 is different. There is no Windows 11 in the pipeline to replace it. Instead, Windows 10 is permanently 'Mainstream', which simplifies support considerably. Except there's a catch. To get support, customers must take all the important updates. If you don't update and then hit a problem, Microsoft won't fix it or have any responsibility.

Does updating matter? Probably. Most dangerous would be a security exploit like someone using a hole in Windows10 to hack into your bank account and empty it, or a blackmailer encrypting all your data and demanding money to release it. The other serious problem occurs when an application or hardware has to be upgraded or replaced and won't load or run on an out-of-date setup. Then you have to upgrade Windows 10, like it or not! The third problem is ignoring a large number of Windows upgrades causes them to queue up. Applying a stack of updates going back a few years is more likely to fail in difficult to unpick ways. Also, if the machine has to be given to a paid repairer, he won't waste time trying to debug an obsolete installation. You'll pay him to apply the upgrades. I suggest:

  • Windows 10 should be kept up-to-date if the machine contains valuable data, is connected to the internet, runs modern applications, and would cause obvious pain if it failed beyond repair.
  • At the other extreme, no need to fuss over a stand-alone workshop computer, perhaps happily running a CNC machine. How often do you ask for Support?
  • Unfortunately, quite a lot of us are in the blurred middle, for example using computers for little more than non-critical browsing and email. Here keeping life simple may be the goal. This is the most difficult case to prescribe for because there are no clear rules. Everything depends on user perception of risks and values and we are all different. However, in this camp think carefully about your tolerance of pain when the computer goes wrong. If you expect or need to fix it, take upgrades. No need to mess with the reliable old friend if the plan is to calmly replace a broken machine with a new one. But don't forget plenty of wives have been seduced by reliable old friends!

I keep my Desktop machines up-to-date because I need current applications and good security. I'm less concerned about my collection of RaspberryPi and other secondary computers, but I find even these are worth updating occasionally, usually to get useful bug fixes or application upgrades.

In my professional life in IT, the really big trouble was caused by either brand-new systems or those out of support. In my experience rotting computer systems are horrible: constant problems, no parts, special contracts, no-one willing or skilled to work on them, unreliable, security risks galore, and incompatible. Amazing how much time and money was wasted on junk before replacements were authorised.

Dave

Bryan Cedar 129/09/2019 11:21:23
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WINDOZE 10.

I fell asleep reading this !

Neil Wyatt29/09/2019 14:06:57
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There's a catch.

I have an older laptop running W10 and there was a big update in, I think, May. This creates issues in a small number of machines with very specific driver/program combinations. I don't think any of these apply to me but the 'further information' tells me the update won't be applied until Microsoft have patched the parts of the update applicable to my computer.

Knowing my luck this will happen in the middle of an astro imaging session...

Neil

Bandersnatch29/09/2019 17:16:21
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Posted by ega on 29/09/2019 09:54:48:
Posted by Bandersnatch on 29/09/2019 01:40:19:

Some related info here.

Thanks for the interesting linked article. I couldn't see any dates in this and wonder if it applied only during the period that a free Win 10 upgrade was available

 


The first sentence of the link seems to clarifiy that a bit.

.... and yes, I'm sure MS would like to get everyone on Win-10. For the (reasonably legitimate) reason that it greatly reduces their support requirement but also - since updates are no longer ultimately optional in the Home version - MS has complete control. Including introducing a subscription model whenever they want,

 

Edited By Bandersnatch on 29/09/2019 17:21:42

Bandersnatch29/09/2019 17:35:33
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Posted by Neil Wyatt on 29/09/2019 14:06:57:

I have an older laptop running W10 and there was a big update in, I think, May. This creates issues in a small number of machines with very specific driver/program combinations.



There were a series of updates (rollups) over the last 6 or so months whose potential (and stated) side-effect was to upset the NIC configuration resulting in the need to re-install the NIC driver and set up the network again .... "we're working on a fix". Are these guys kidding?

Having a fairly extensive LAN with several machines and NAS boxes (and being older than I used to be when I set the whole thing up frown ) I wasn't about to go there. MS finally came out with an update to fix the underlying problem a month or two ago.

Neil Wyatt29/09/2019 21:28:12
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I do have to wonder why anyone would not want to go to W10 from W7 unless they have a machine running a sensitive application they can't risk breaking.

Neil

duncan webster29/09/2019 21:42:57
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I suspect because MS were trying to ram it down everyone's throat without explain why it would be better. Having now got a W10 machine as well I'm quite happy with it, but then I was OK with W3.1, then 95, then XP and W7.

I can recommend the Libre Office software for word processing, spreadsheets etc, as it's name suggests it's free, and copes with docs produced by MS office

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