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How hot does the motor on your mill/lathe run?

Warco GH18 mill motor temperature.

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Ian Thomson 224/08/2019 22:07:52
59 forum posts
16 photos

I have just purchased a Warco GH18 mill.

Running it up for the first time, the spindle turns freely, and there are no nasty noises. I can see the fan on the motor is turning.

Running the lowest gear ratio under no load, the motor temperature is up to nearly 100deg C after about 10 minutes.

I will phone Warco in the week to confirm, but can I assume the motor is continuously rated and this temperature is normal?

Thanks.

Neil Wyatt24/08/2019 22:27:59
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A modern motor shoudl be able to run too hot for your hand to be kept on it, but that seems excessive for no load.

It may need running in or perhaps the centrifugal start switch (if fitted) isn't opening?

Neil

not done it yet25/08/2019 02:08:29
3494 forum posts
15 photos

Is the fan turning at motor speed? There should be quite an airflow generated around the motor casing.

What is the actual temperature and how much current/power is it actually using? If the case is at 100 degrees Celsius, the windings will be considerably hotter. I would be checking the details on the motor rating plate. All relevant detail should be on that. Meanings for the different symbols are documented on the internet.

This might be a useful read: https://www.machinedesign.com/technologies/hot-topic-motor-temperature

Edited By not done it yet on 25/08/2019 02:15:23

mick H25/08/2019 07:35:44
693 forum posts
19 photos

My Warco WM14 mill/drill ran very hot from the time I first bought it, about 8 years ago. I fitted a computer cooling fan in the housing which keeps things within bounds and touch wood........

Mick

ChrisB25/08/2019 07:41:00
416 forum posts
171 photos

Seems to be a common thing with these type of machines. My WM18 does the same, although I never checked the motor temperature, the quill will get warm enough in a matter of minutes. It never got hot enough you can't touch it tho...I guess the motor will be hotter than the quill tho.

Have a look here **LINK** there's a link in that thread which further discusses the temperature issues.

Chris

JasonB25/08/2019 07:44:41
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This is not a variable speed machine with the motor tucked away in the head, its a big flange mount motor on the top here

XD 35125/08/2019 08:32:59
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1357 forum posts
113 photos

I would take the belts off the motor and see if it runs cooler , 100c seems too hot for my liking - somewhere between 30- 60 deg would seem more normal to me . Cold = happy for induction motors .

Ian Thomson 225/08/2019 09:30:33
59 forum posts
16 photos

I ran it for 20 minutes this morning, and it only reached 85 degrees.

Maybe it does only need a bit of running in?

The spindle is cool, and I can't find a rating plate on the motor.

I will keep an eye on the temperature and run it each gear/ each direction and see if things improve.

Thanks.

Clive Foster25/08/2019 09:49:05
1869 forum posts
59 photos

Its not uncommon for motors to run rather hot off load. Something to do with self generated internal circulating currents I believe. Allegedly designing things that way wins a bit more oomph and better torque curve at operating speeds when its operating as it should with the internally generated voltage balancing against the supply.

Most extreme examples are the "pseudo two phase" fixed capacitor single phase motors made for fan duties. Extremely efficient when running a fan at design load but if run off load for any length of time they will literally cook themselves to death. Took me ten minutes to prove that when I wrecked a rather nice new surplus, super cheap, bargain from Bull Electronics in Croydon maybe 35 - 40 years ago. At, as I recall it, £2 (ish) for a 1/2 HP motor there had to be a catch!

Clive

Brian G25/08/2019 12:31:00
603 forum posts
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Posted by XD 351 on 25/08/2019 08:32:59:

I would take the belts off the motor and see if it runs cooler , 100c seems too hot for my liking - somewhere between 30- 60 deg would seem more normal to me . Cold = happy for induction motors .

Might be worth measuring the ambient temperature as well as the motor temperature. It is nearly 30c outside in Southern England right now, so it could be 40+ in a shed or garage, which will of course increase the motor temperature.

Brian

John Rutzen26/08/2019 08:51:46
115 forum posts
1 photos

I have an Amadeal mill which I am very pleased with. The brushless DC motor never even runs warm never mind hot. Even with prolonged use it's still cold. There must be something wrong with yours. My 3 phase motor on my lathe which is converted using capacitors to run on single phase never runs hot either. Warm at the most.

SillyOldDuffer26/08/2019 09:49:34
4789 forum posts
1011 photos

I'm against beginner's looking for problems in new machines because inexperience can lead one up the garden path. Very easy to end up chasing 'problems' that don't exist, or don't matter in practice. Don't ask how I know! The problem is high-accuracy measurement isn't easy, and in this case the temperature characteristic of an off-load motor is unknown. There may be an analogy with blank firing guns getting hotter than guns firing live ammunition. The reason is that propelling a lump of lead down range cools the gases by doing work. Similarly, a car engine left idling on a hot day will soon start the electric fan.

I think it's better to put machines to work as a way of detecting problems. Only when something is wrong start testing to determine the cause. Fully equipped experts are the exception, it's guessing that's to be avoided.

Worth talking to Warco in case this turns into a Warranty Claim, but I'd want to confirm there's a real problem by making the mill cut metal in a normal work-cycle. Does the motor overheat when used normally?

Dave

not done it yet26/08/2019 10:00:48
3494 forum posts
15 photos

I was perusing some bandsaw specs recently. Most appeared to have quite high-powered motors compared to a few which seemed decidedly underpowered, but on one machine spec the input and output specifications for the motor was included. The motor efficiency was almost unbelievably poor, IMO.

Ended my comparisons on motor power as some of those adverts were likely to be very misleading and the ‘lower powered’ machines were likely nearly as powerful as those highly ‘specced’ ones.

This example might be a similar scenario? I only want to know the output for comparison - the input will always be more, but I suppose that for a hobby machine the run factors are generally low, so efficiency may not be so important?.

Samsaranda26/08/2019 11:06:53
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787 forum posts
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I have a Champion v20 mill from Chester, when carrying out some very slow drilling I was concerned that the motor was working very hard and getting very hot, I removed the motor shroud and directed a powerful fan on to the motor to keep it cool, worked fine and brought the motor temp down to acceptable level. Once that job was finished I obtained two 40 mm diameter computer cooling fans which I located in the front of the motor shroud and they pull plenty of cooling air across the motor so no more overheating.

Dave W

Dave Halford26/08/2019 11:31:53
479 forum posts
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Posted by not done it yet on 26/08/2019 10:00:48:

I was perusing some bandsaw specs recently. Most appeared to have quite high-powered motors compared to a few which seemed decidedly underpowered, but on one machine spec the input and output specifications for the motor was included. The motor efficiency was almost unbelievably poor, IMO.

Ended my comparisons on motor power as some of those adverts were likely to be very misleading and the ‘lower powered’ machines were likely nearly as powerful as those highly ‘specced’ ones.

This example might be a similar scenario? I only want to know the output for comparison - the input will always be more, but I suppose that for a hobby machine the run factors are generally low, so efficiency may not be so important?.

There are regs covering AC motor efficiency of 1hp (80%+) and above that should cover motors in machines, one doubts that these are followed by some far east imports given the CE mark fiasco.

not done it yet26/08/2019 16:40:04
3494 forum posts
15 photos

Posted by Dave Halford on 26/08/2019 11:31:53:

.....

There are regs covering AC motor efficiency of 1hp (80%+) and above that should cover motors in machines, one doubts that these are followed by some far east imports given the CE mark fiasco.

Dave, the ‘apparent’ power, at first glance, was well over 750W - but the power output was very much considerably below that value. Suppliers/marketing/manufacturers taking the something out of prospective purchasers by quoting misleading specifications....

I looked again for that advertising carp, earlier this morning, but could not locate the particular item which caught my attention. I had thought, previously, that it was an EU manufacturer but cannot be sure of this...

larry phelan 126/08/2019 17:52:00
515 forum posts
11 photos

Not sure about mill motors, but the motor on my cheapy bandsaw does run quite hot. I thought this was not quite right until I read the good book, whigh said that this was normal and nothing to worry about, but I still dont like putting my hand on it. It,s a Chineese motor but has never given any trouble.

Now, the motor on my Lux mill, 1*5 hp never seems to get hot even after long runs, neither does the motor on my Craftsman lathe, so could there be an issue with tight bearings ?

Les Jones 126/08/2019 18:37:59
2096 forum posts
144 photos

On the assumption that it is a single phase motor one possibility is that the centrifugal switch is not opening when the motor is up to speed. Before doing anything to the machine wait to see what Warco say about about the motor temperature.

Les.

not done it yet26/08/2019 18:46:52
3494 forum posts
15 photos

I found the advert .

It was on Stakesy’s website, but perhaps not of european manufacture.

**LINK**

850W input but only 445W output. Some considerable difference, that! Only a little over 50%

Now, if the Warco motor is of similar ilk, I do wonder what the real truth is, regarding the power of the machine.

If the output is a real 900W (which I would expect of a Warco product) then the heat loss could be as much as 225W at only 80% efficiency. But note Dave’s comment about far east imports so could be worse - but hope it’s not.

If on the other hand... on the same efficiency as the example above, the real power could be 900*445/850 = 470W with a heat dissipation of 430W!. That would be some heat to dissipate to the motor casing and to the forced air cooling.

Those figures would/should not apply for a motor running at low power. But who knows!

Edited to add that those input/output figures might include some mechanical losses, I suppose, but doubt it.

Edited By not done it yet on 26/08/2019 18:51:47

Ian Thomson 227/08/2019 12:50:31
59 forum posts
16 photos

I spoke to Warco today, and they confirmed that the motors do indeed run hot.

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