By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale July 23rd

Need a lot of help from you good people

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
terry callaghan19/08/2019 16:11:56
186 forum posts
5 photos

Hi, I purchased this battery loco around 9 years back and I have done nothing with it. This week I took it out for a look and to be honest I have no idea how to get this to run. As you can see the twin motors run a single chain to the wheels axle. All the wires are black and heavy gauge. My question is would it be better to scrap the current motors and control system and replace with new. If so what motor.i have looked at the motors on offer by a few model loco dealers but their prices are way over the top. Would I be better off fitting a Sinclair c5 motor or some sort of motor from a mobility scooter. This is a heavy all metal 7 1/4 loco. Plus there will be a riding car, battery or battery’s and 18 stone of me.

Ron Laden19/08/2019 16:16:15
avatar
1296 forum posts
221 photos

Terry...pictures..?

terry callaghan19/08/2019 16:19:05
186 forum posts
5 photos

2684d342-f0c8-4310-9245-fb9add990432.jpegHope these pics show51856f23-28a2-46b7-95df-7de74802fa63.jpeg

terry callaghan19/08/2019 16:19:23
186 forum posts
5 photos

987c15f4-0bbd-489b-ad35-5c4d393ccc75.jpeg

terry callaghan19/08/2019 16:20:34
186 forum posts
5 photos

Here they are.

SillyOldDuffer19/08/2019 16:59:31
4592 forum posts
980 photos

I'd give it a try before ripping it apart. The two doubled black wires ending in eyelets look like battery connections to me. One of them is marked Blue for negative. (Circled in Blue), the other will be Positive (circled in Red)

enginewires.jpg

With the wheels free to turn, I'd try dabbing the eyelets on a car battery to see if there's any sign of life. Provided they've not been soaked electric motors are tough old birds. Any markings on the motors? I'd guess they're 24V or more rather than 12V, which effects the battery configuration.

Only a guess about the small motor dangling bottom right off a choc bloc; it might be belt driven off the shaft as a generator to drive a speedo in the cab. Or perhaps it drives an oil-pump.

Dave

Ian P19/08/2019 17:06:35
avatar
2144 forum posts
89 photos

As Dave said. electric motors are tough, if the loco was working before then presumably it can be serviced/repaired/titivated or whatever, I would certainly try and get is up an running before thinking of a completely new drive system.

My guess on the small motor is that it an air pump or small compressor for an air horn.

Ian P

terry callaghan19/08/2019 17:24:41
186 forum posts
5 photos

Hi chaps, just connected a fully charged battery directly to the motors, no movement at all so looks like both motors are U/S. So the question is. Is it possible to fit a new motor and control unit without breaking the bank, if so what motor and which control system.. Or is it time to past it on to someone with more electronics knowledge and interest then I have.

Ron Laden19/08/2019 18:44:39
avatar
1296 forum posts
221 photos

If it were mine I would remove the motors (photograph all electrical and mechanical connections first) and strip them down to see if there is anything obvious. If you dont fancy that do you have a motor repair/rewind service local to you, they should be able to tell you quite quickly if the motors are shot but also if they can be serviced/repaired back into life. It could be a lot cheaper than new motors even if you can find them.

I dont think Sinclair C5 motors are man enough for the job, I think I am correct in saying that they are only 250 watt so a pair at 500 watts is not enough. As you say it is a heavy loco, from the pictures it looks very heavy plus the riding car, the batteries (there will be more than one) and yourself and any passengers. At a guess I would say it needs 2HP (1500 watts) at least.

Edited By Ron Laden on 19/08/2019 18:45:39

terry callaghan19/08/2019 19:26:01
186 forum posts
5 photos

Ron, I think you are right the Sinclair motor is not man enough. I think that this is going to be too much for me to sort out as I am a complete donut when it comes to electronics. Sad to say that there is nothing useful in my location in the way of motor servicing. So I think I will get on with the repaint and eBay it. Thanks for your input.

JOHN KNIGHT19/08/2019 19:46:33
15 forum posts

Connecting the leads to a battery is ok, but the "regulator" will need to be moved to the run position. Apolgies if i'm stating the obvious.

John

Robert Atkinson 219/08/2019 20:27:15
avatar
344 forum posts
21 photos
Posted by terry callaghan on 19/08/2019 19:26:01:

Ron, I think you are right the Sinclair motor is not man enough. I think that this is going to be too much for me to sort out as I am a complete donut when it comes to electronics. Sad to say that there is nothing useful in my location in the way of motor servicing. So I think I will get on with the repaint and eBay it. Thanks for your input.

What is your location? Maybe there is someone near who can help. If you are anywere near Cambridge I'd be happy tto a hve a look. Unless they have een cooked or soaked most big DC motors will respond to a clean, commutator skim and new brushes. You can then look at new control system.

Robert G8RPI.

J Hancock19/08/2019 20:27:59
301 forum posts

I wouldn't give up on those motors yet, try to do some simple resistance checks first.

Maybe even a 'smell' test though rather a lot of time has passed for this to work.

terry callaghan19/08/2019 20:59:50
186 forum posts
5 photos

Thanks Robert, I am in Somerset. Commutator skims, new brushes are way out of my knowledge. I have always been a hit it with a hammer type of guy and if that does not work, use a bigger hammer. Much the same goes for resistance checks. What I can’t get my head around is why into days world there is not a replacement 12v motor I can fit in. I would think that a lot of power would be lost with the locos old control system. Taking out and fitting in new motors I can do. Understanding what looks like 50 year old units I have not a hope.

Les Jones 119/08/2019 21:50:52
2092 forum posts
144 photos

I think those motors are WW2 vintage motor/generators. I think if you remove the perforated metal cover on the right hand end you will find there is a commutator that end that originally was the high voltage output. I can't see any brush housings that end so they have probably been removed as they are not required when just used as a motor. Another thing that might have made you think they are faulty is they are probably shunt wound (Rather than permanent magnet.) so they would need a supply to the field winding as well as to the brushes at the left hand end. I think the small motor at the bottom of your last picture is a compressor as you can see a cylinder and cylinder head on the left hand end of it.

Les.

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 19/08/2019 22:08:37

Neil Wyatt19/08/2019 22:42:20
avatar
Moderator
16432 forum posts
685 photos
74 articles
Posted by terry callaghan on 19/08/2019 19:26:01:

Ron, I think you are right the Sinclair motor is not man enough. I think that this is going to be too much for me to sort out as I am a complete donut when it comes to electronics. Sad to say that there is nothing useful in my location in the way of motor servicing. So I think I will get on with the repaint and eBay it. Thanks for your input.

The Sinclair motor are still legendary for their capabilities, despite the C5 being a poor concept, the motors ARE very good and have along history of successful use in electric locos!

If one can pull a full grown man uphill along the road, two can shift a loco along a nice smooth track!

My loco (3 1/2" gauge) plled an 18 stone man around a level track - its motor is just just 80 watts.

Neil

Paul Kemp19/08/2019 22:49:19
297 forum posts
11 photos

My 040 battery loco runs fine on its C5 motor. Used to pull my kids round the club track and also a car load of kids up and down my portable track at fetes all afternoon without missing a beat on an old Capri car battery!

Paul.

Hacksaw19/08/2019 23:19:43
401 forum posts
162 photos

Yeah but it was a 3 litre capri battery , not a 1300 one laugh

Frances IoM19/08/2019 23:52:18
637 forum posts
24 photos
I suspect the control system is well pre-electronic and worked in the same way as the old SR electric stock using control of the field current possibly by switching voltage or by resistors hence the two controls using a multiway rotary switch (rather like those I built as a workshop exercise 50+ years ago!
Robert Atkinson 220/08/2019 07:39:15
avatar
344 forum posts
21 photos
Posted by terry callaghan on 19/08/2019 20:59:50:

Thanks Robert, I am in Somerset. Commutator skims, new brushes are way out of my knowledge. I have always been a hit it with a hammer type of guy and if that does not work, use a bigger hammer. Much the same goes for resistance checks. What I can’t get my head around is why into days world there is not a replacement 12v motor I can fit in. I would think that a lot of power would be lost with the locos old control system. Taking out and fitting in new motors I can do. Understanding what looks like 50 year old units I have not a hope.

Well I was fitting new brushes in motors before I was even a teenager so I'm sure you can do it.

I suggest you take the rear motor out and post some more photos of it. We can then give step by step instructions. If you can get that one running on the bench it's a start.

I will be a little blunt here, if you want to get it running to use I'm happy to help, if you just want it running to sell it (you mentioned paint and ebay in another post) then I've better things to do.

Robert G8RPI.

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
Eccentric Engineering
ChesterUK
Advertise With Us
Ausee.com.au
TRANSWAVE Converters
Meridienne oct 2019
Warco
Eccentric July 5 2018
emcomachinetools
Allendale Electronics
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest