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First Lathe

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Nathan Turner 106/08/2019 17:45:42
9 forum posts

Hello everyone i'm currently searching for my first lathe, for a variety of work, some stationary engines, steel tooling for the shop and some smaller mechanical work. I already have a milling machine, tool and cutter grinder plus some other bits and pieces that would make me semi-comfortable to buy used and repair things. The space i have available is roughly 170cm L x 80cm W. My wishlist currently is:

Camlock chuck
metric
fairly complete threadcutting gearbox
around 300kg max (can go higher this is mainly incase i want to sell or move the lathe and not restrict potential buyers)
good size spindle bore, perhaps 38mm
10x20 inch capacity minimum, the swing is more important to me
ideally quiet running (am quite happy to fit vfd and motor but if theres a model already with it then that's a plus)
would like to spend around £3k at most but would spend more if there are much better alternatives out there.

If i look at new machines that fit the bill i can only see the chester crusader and warco gh 1236 which are pretty big for me (warco have sold all the next batch of 1230) and emvio engineering has the eml-290 which has the inverter and d1-4 taper at a minimum of £2.2k.

With used machines i'm really not knowledgeable but the Emco maximat super 11 cd seems to fit the bill perfectly and then i've not seen much else, ideas ?

thanks in advance for any replies

Edited By Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 17:46:56

old mart06/08/2019 17:59:36
442 forum posts
42 photos

That EML290 looks good, I see that a DRO is optional, which may well be within your budget.

JasonB06/08/2019 18:26:19
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16018 forum posts
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That does not really have a screwcutting gearbox.

It is the same as the Warco etc 280 & 290 models where you get a simple 1:2, 1:1. 2:1 gearbox that gives 3 pitches per change wheel setup eg if you set for 1mm pitch you can also get 0.5mm and 2mm without changing anything. You will have to change the gear train each time you want to go back to a fine feed.

I think SPG also did it at one time with the camlock spindle.

Thor06/08/2019 18:27:31
1108 forum posts
31 photos

Hi Nathan,

I have an older 290 lathe with 38mm spindle bore and MT3 tailstock. It has served me well for 6 years. The EML290 you mention look very similar to mine except for the Camlock spindle nose (and the paintwork of course). A Camlock spindle nose was on my wishlist but I wasn't able to find one where I live.

Thor

Nathan Turner 106/08/2019 18:41:49
9 forum posts

Thankyou for the replies. JasonB, it's one thing that puts me off it, i was hoping there was perhaps something like the emco maximat 11 that another company had made that i could search for used.

Thor, i think they seem to be pretty similar. I actually looked at the warco 280 as the 290 seems to be fairly pricey from them at the moment but i'd like the camlock. What kind of work have you mainly done with it ?

old mart, i forgot to add a DRO to the list, i wouldnt be without one on my gh universal mill from warco. I'll probably fit my own as the extra markup for prefitting seems to be quite high and it was fairly straightforward on the mill

 

Edited By Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 18:55:34

Barrie Lever06/08/2019 19:04:10
323 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 17:45:42:

Hello everyone i'm currently searching for my first lathe, for a variety of work, some stationary engines, steel tooling for the shop and some smaller mechanical work. I already have a milling machine, tool and cutter grinder plus some other bits and pieces that would make me semi-comfortable to buy used and repair things. The space i have available is roughly 170cm L x 80cm W. My wishlist currently is:

Camlock chuck
metric
fairly complete threadcutting gearbox
around 300kg max (can go higher this is mainly incase i want to sell or move the lathe and not restrict potential buyers)
good size spindle bore, perhaps 38mm
10x20 inch capacity minimum, the swing is more important to me
ideally quiet running (am quite happy to fit vfd and motor but if theres a model already with it then that's a plus)
would like to spend around £3k at most but would spend more if there are much better alternatives out there.

If i look at new machines that fit the bill i can only see the chester crusader and warco gh 1236 which are pretty big for me (warco have sold all the next batch of 1230) and emvio engineering has the eml-290 which has the inverter and d1-4 taper at a minimum of £2.2k.

With used machines i'm really not knowledgeable but the Emco maximat super 11 cd seems to fit the bill perfectly and then i've not seen much else, ideas ?

thanks in advance for any replies

Edited By Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 17:46:56

Nathan

With your specification/requirements have you considered a Wabeco D6000, it can be ordered with cam lock and a 30mm spindle throat. Although the price is higher than you indicate, you can see this machine in the showroom in Stamford, Lincs.

Wabeco machines are very smooth running and quite, they use a toothed belt drive and two types of motor, the lower speed models are not VFD but some kind of feedback series motor, the high speed versions have a typically Teutonic motor.

The EMCO 11 is a very superior machine IMO, I had a Maximat V10P and it was capable of very accurate work, the trouble is they don't come up for sale too often.

At some stage in the future I will buy a CNC Wabeco D6000 with CNC tool turret, I will visit the factory in Germany to ensure I am entirely happy that the lathe will meet my expectations (which can be in the stratosphere !!).

Regards

Barrie

I would jump at the machine that Jason has pointed out.

Edited By Barrie Lever on 06/08/2019 19:10:08

Edited By Barrie Lever on 06/08/2019 19:11:41

JasonB06/08/2019 19:07:47
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16018 forum posts
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There is a Super 11 CD in the classifieds at the moment

Nathan Turner 106/08/2019 19:21:37
9 forum posts

Thanks Barrie the wabeco does look very good i think the price is just a bit too far out of my range. JasonB i've actually contacted him and he's sold it unfortunately but wasnt aware of how to remove the ad, i'm kicking myself for not seeing it quick enough so i'll haveto keep searching

Barrie ive found three Maximat V10P lathes on ebay just now, i'll haveto read up on how they compare to the 11. the most expensive actually looks in ok condition but is too far for me to visit without buying blind. There is one in Nottingham which i could see, they want £1200 for it, looks well used so i'm unsure but could be worth considering, thanks

Edited By Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 19:53:48

Barrie Lever06/08/2019 20:22:45
323 forum posts
1 photos

Nathan

The V10's are similar but much older.

The only one of the three on Ebay I would look at is the one for £2150 but I am not sure I would put much effort into it, the other two are not worth walking around the corner to look at.

I buy loads of equipment on Ebay and have sixth sense for what is good (I am ridiculed for this quite often), don't let the money burn a hole in your pocket !!

If you get a good lathe it will last for ages and still retain it's value.

Regards

Barrie

David Standing 106/08/2019 20:45:44
1266 forum posts
45 photos

If you are looking at Warco, why haven't you mentioned the GH1322?

Bigger swing than the two you mentioned, smaller footprint, and if you want a metric 3 phase one, and you say you can fit a VFD, it has the benefit of currently being £650 off!

Nathan Turner 106/08/2019 22:03:37
9 forum posts

Hi David, i had seen this and completely forgotten about it. It's on the heavy side but is in stock at least plus the gap bed could be useful for future use. With a dro vfd and 3 phase 240v motor it might come in a bit above my target price but it has a lot going for it. Does anyone on the forum have this model to share their experience ?

Thor07/08/2019 17:45:48
1108 forum posts
31 photos
Posted by Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 18:41:49:

Thor, i think they seem to be pretty similar. I actually looked at the warco 280 as the 290 seems to be fairly pricey from them at the moment but i'd like the camlock. What kind of work have you mainly done with it ?

Edited By Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 18:55:34

I have turned small steam engines, 150mm dia. steel backplates, hard steel bars, light alloy and brass, it works well for the work I do. If you can get an Emco 11 in good condition, buy it.

Thor

Old School07/08/2019 18:02:28
239 forum posts
7 photos

What about a Myford 254S the metric ones are cheaper than the imperial ones. Only secondhand machines now. Very happy with mine.

Neil Wyatt07/08/2019 18:19:07
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16432 forum posts
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Posted by Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 19:21:37:

. JasonB i've actually contacted him and he's sold it unfortunately but wasnt aware of how to remove the ad,

For future reference, when you are logged in, go to the 'more for sale ads' page and click 'manage my ads'.

Neil

David Standing 107/08/2019 21:11:49
1266 forum posts
45 photos
Posted by Old School on 07/08/2019 18:02:28:

What about a Myford 254S the metric ones are cheaper than the imperial ones. Only secondhand machines now. Very happy with mine.

Nathan's brief included 'good sized spindle bore, perhaps 38mm'. A 254S misses that brief by 12mm wink

Barrie Lever08/08/2019 07:55:03
323 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by David Standing 1 on 07/08/2019 21:11:49:
Posted by Old School on 07/08/2019 18:02:28:

What about a Myford 254S the metric ones are cheaper than the imperial ones. Only secondhand machines now. Very happy with mine.

Nathan's brief included 'good sized spindle bore, perhaps 38mm'. A 254S misses that brief by 12mm wink

I would allow slip on the 38mm requirement to be the owner of a Myford 254S, ways can be found to get around that requirement, unless it was an everyday occurrence.

B.

not done it yet08/08/2019 08:28:22
3240 forum posts
11 photos

BL,

Also misses that 10” minimum swing. How many 254 machines had camlok spindles? Not many, I would have guessed, but as always I may be wrong!

If that lathe were to be an option, a good Raglan 5” might be an alternative (but only with a L-100 spindle nose?). About as rare, I would think! But a good Raglan 5” might cost a third, or less, than a 254!

Making tight specifications, as a requirement, invites an expensive price tag - but it is only a ‘wish list’, after all.

SillyOldDuffer08/08/2019 09:08:43
4592 forum posts
980 photos
Posted by Barrie Lever on 08/08/2019 07:55:03:
Posted by David Standing 1 on 07/08/2019 21:11:49:
Posted by Old School on 07/08/2019 18:02:28:

What about a Myford 254S the metric ones are cheaper than the imperial ones. Only secondhand machines now. Very happy with mine.

Nathan's brief included 'good sized spindle bore, perhaps 38mm'. A 254S misses that brief by 12mm wink

I would allow slip on the 38mm requirement to be the owner of a Myford 254S, ways can be found to get around that requirement, unless it was an everyday occurrence.

B.

Many moons ago when people paid me to evaluate competitive bids, before issuing tenders we carefully categorised Requirements as either Mandatory and Desirable. Failure to meet a Mandatory would be enough to reject a bid no matter how good it was otherwise.

Treatment of Desirable requirements was more complicated in that they were scored and weighted to establish objectively just how important they actually were relative to each other. By comparing the total weighted scores, it was possible to identify which bid best met the requirement. The system reduces personal bias and - because it is objective - the decision can be defended if challenged.

Nathan's question described his requirements as a 'wishlist', that is everything is desirable. As so much is up for grabs, it's tricky for the forum to advise because we can't tell what matters or not. Possibly before choosing a lathe, Nathan needs help refining his list of requirements. (Apologies to Nathan if he knows exactly what he wants and why!)

It's worth putting a bit of thought into requirements because getting them wrong can be wasteful. For example, if Nathan has a mandatory requirement for a 38mm spindle bore, then the excellent Myford 254S is not for him. On the other hand, if 38mm is a convenience feature, then it can be scored relative to other convenience features.

Apart from spindle bore the other difficult requirement in Nathan's wish-list is that Camlock chuck. As a mandatory requirement camlock severely restricts Nathan's choice of lathe. No problem with wanting one if Nathan will be constantly changing chucks, but a seriously bad idea if the Camlock feature is lightly used. It's because specifying camlock eliminates many good alternatives, cheaper and/or better lathes, which is undesirable because Nathan has restrictions on size, weight, swing and budget as well.

Dave

Barrie Lever08/08/2019 09:22:11
323 forum posts
1 photos

Dave

Very wise words.

B.

Hollowpoint08/08/2019 10:03:23
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205 forum posts
28 photos

Personally I would go secondhand. Your budget gets you into Harrison, Colchester, Boxford territory and while you might not get every feature you want the overall quality of the lathe will be superior. I can say that as someone who has owned both British and Chinese lathes.

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