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Is there a type of Sellotape/"sticky-backed-plastic" that forms a PERMANENT bond

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Michael Gilligan30/07/2019 19:05:41
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14580 forum posts
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Posted by John Smith 47 on 30/07/2019 18:52:02:

Hello

Is there a type of Sellotape or "sticky-backed plastic" that resists constant pressure, resists heat and sunlight, and which forms a permanent bond?"

Background:
I am making a large hinge in my model (for a prototype of an obscure new product). I have been using various types of "sticky-backed plastic" - such as Diamond Sellotape, 3M's Crystal Tape - but although they all work great for a while, they don't resist constant pressure very well, don't age well, and they all melt in the sun!

My models are made of styrene (PS) and some ABS.

- Any thoughts?

J


PS I am new here!

 

 

 

Interesting first question, John ... so a hearty 'welcome aboard'

3M [already one of your suppliers] is probably the best source of advice, and product

They've bee doing this for a while !!

I did a quick google search for '3m pressure sensitive tape, permanent' ... and quickly found this page: **LINK**

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/467622O/3m-pressure-sensitive-adhesives-tapes.pdf

It looks like a promising start.

MichaelG.

Edited By JasonB on 31/07/2019 06:51:51

Clive Brown 130/07/2019 19:10:14
306 forum posts
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3M manufacture VHB, (very high bond) tapes for industrial use, vehicle trim etc. Available via ebay. Might be worth a try.

MichaelR30/07/2019 19:14:58
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347 forum posts
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Model aircraft hinge tape may suit your project Here

Mike.

Robert Atkinson 230/07/2019 19:27:16
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I use Kapton / Polyimide tape with silicone adhesive for this type of job. One possible issue for you is that while transparent it has an amber/copper/gold colour

example

https://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/mc001818/tape-polyimide-film-25mm-x-33m/dp/2770437?st=kapton%20tape

Robert G8RPI.

3404630/07/2019 19:45:20
884 forum posts
6 photos
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 30/07/2019 19:05:41:

Interesting first question, John ... so a hearty 'welcome aboard'

3M [already one of your suppliers] is probably the best source of advice, and product

They've bee doing this for a while !!

I did a quick google search for '3m pressure sensitive tape, permanent' ... and quickly found this page: **LINK**

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/467622O/3m-pressure-sensitive-adhesives-tapes.pdf

It looks like a promising star

MichaelG.

 

 

 

Confused.

O P says he is new here.

Michael says interesting first question but it seems he joined in Nov 2015 and has had 44 posts to date ?

Bill

 

Edited By 34046 on 30/07/2019 19:45:51

Edited By 34046 on 30/07/2019 19:47:55

Andrew Tinsley30/07/2019 19:51:03
941 forum posts

I used to use a 3M product, to line a vacuum chamber with thick aluminium foil. The material stood 200 centigrade and a vicious low pressure plasma. One needed a chisel to remove it after a 100 hours or so of running.

The reel that I have, says, 3M made in the USA. Core Series 2-1360. It is a double sided black tape maybe a little over 1mm thick. Excuse the mixed units!

This was purchased in the UK with no difficulties.

Regards,

Andrew.

Barrie Lever30/07/2019 19:53:14
324 forum posts
2 photos
Posted by John Smith 47 on 30/07/2019 18:52:02:

Hello

Is there a type of Sellotape or "sticky-backed plastic" that resists constant pressure, resists heat and sunlight, and which forms a permanent bond?"

Background:
I am making a large hinge in my model (for a prototype of an obscure new product). I have been using various types of "sticky-backed plastic" - such as Diamond Sellotape, 3M's Crystal Tape - but although they all work great for a while, they don't resist constant pressure very well, don't age well, and they all melt in the sun!

My models are made of styrene (PS) and some ABS.

- Any thoughts?

J


PS I am new here!

Almost by definition you have asked something that is very difficult for a self adhesive tape to do, the adhesive has to be mobile so as that it can be deployed at some random time.

How about using a thin fibreglass hinge (Glass fibre cloth not mat) you could apply this to the foam with epoxy resin and then you have a hinge just the same as on an expensive composite model aircraft.

I am doing this kind of thing all the time, elaborate on the forces involved and the size of the hinge and how many degrees of movement you require and I will be able to guide you better.

Regards

Barrie

Geoff Theasby30/07/2019 20:25:52
595 forum posts
15 photos

I was going to suggest Kapton tape, too. What Andrew has is called self-amalgamating tape, much used for outdoor sealing purposes. Stretch it round the item to be sealed, and it bonds with itself, can only be removed by destructiion.

Michael Gilligan30/07/2019 21:22:05
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14580 forum posts
633 photos

Posted by 34046 on 30/07/2019 19:45:20:

Confused.

O P says he is new here.

Michael says interesting first question but it seems he joined in Nov 2015 and has had 44 posts to date ?

Bill

.

Good point, Bill

... I can only say: I took the statement at face value and didn't check blush

MichaelG.

vintage engineer30/07/2019 21:44:34
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214 forum posts
1 photos

Helicopter tape?

Jeff Dayman30/07/2019 22:30:24
1697 forum posts
45 photos
Posted by John Smith 47 on 30/07/2019 18:52:02:

Hello

Is there a type of Sellotape or "sticky-backed plastic" that resists constant pressure, resists heat and sunlight, and which forms a permanent bond?"

Background:
I am making a large hinge in my model (for a prototype of an obscure new product). I have been using various types of "sticky-backed plastic" - such as Diamond Sellotape, 3M's Crystal Tape - but although they all work great for a while, they don't resist constant pressure very well, don't age well, and they all melt in the sun!

My models are made of styrene (PS) and some ABS.

- Any thoughts?

J


PS I am new here!

With your requirement set (sun exposure, heat, pressure, time) I think you are expecting more than tape can deliver. I'd suggest revisiting the hinged part design with mechanical hinges and an elastomer seal that is in a compartment out of the sun. The simplest seal to implement for plastic assys if possible is a round shaped flat seal, like some food storage systems and some autoclaves use.

If you are using this product outdoors you will want to rethink PS and ABS material choices also. Both will degrade and eventually crack in sunlight, in varying degrees depending on grade. An outdoor-rated material like Sabic's Valox V3900, or one of their Lexan outdoor grades would be far better - especially if they need to contain pressure. (you don't specify temps and pressures - hope they are relatively low) . Be sure to have this design checked by a professional designer before exposing the public to it.

Dave Halford30/07/2019 22:48:57
521 forum posts
4 photos

Solartex used to work well as a hinge. iron on

JasonB31/07/2019 06:50:48
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Sorry I deleted the opening post by Mistake but it is quoted 3 times so you should all be able to work out the question but I have also added it to Michael's first reply.

 

Edited By JasonB on 31/07/2019 06:52:32

John Smith 4731/07/2019 13:18:20
47 forum posts

What a lot of replies! Thank you everyone.

Firstly my humble apologies - I got confused about my "new-ness". (In my defence, I hadn't used the site for a fair while and for some reason I simply couldn't find where to see any of my previous posts!)


MY REQUIREMENTS

To get clear, here are my IDEAL requirements for what I am looking for an adhesive tape:

a. Forms a strong permanent bond (is not removable, resists a strong constant pull well)

b. Is highly flexible (so would form a good hinge)

c. Is transparent (or better yet, "invisible" like 3M's Magic Tape - but that doesn't age well)

d. Ages well:
- Won't discolour
- nor go rigid
- nor crack over time

e. Resists heat well

f. Bonds well to a variety of materials, but particularly to styrene and ABS.

g. Is single-sided (although double-sided could also be of interest at some point too)

h. Is pretty thin (much like Sellotape - although thicker versions could be if interest at some point too)

i. Is extremely flexible (so many thousands of open-shut cycles won't be a problem)

j. (if possible) is dead-easy to apply (as is Sellotape),
- Nothing to measure out in equal quantities
- Nothing to stir
- No separate adhesive to apply
- No special equipment (e.g. no irons needed!)

k. (if possible) with a near immediate 'grab'

l. (Ideally) it would be repositionable / removable for a while before it sets PERMANENTLY.

m. (very ideally) it would be good to be weather proof

n. (ideally) it should be also reasonably priced - but that may be too much to ask!


In short, I'm looking for a better, long-life version of Sellotape that bonds permanently!
But I can see that I may need to compromise....
e.g. Maybe I could tolerate something that I have to apply with an iron or hot air gun??



YOUR SUGGESTIONS

My initial reactions are as follows:

> Model aircraft hinge tape
It looks interesting and might work OK, but it seems to be some sort of REMOVABLE tape, whereas I am looking form something permanent

> Core Series 2-1360.
Double-sided.
1mm will be a bit thick this project.


> fibreglass hinge
Surely glass fibres will start to crack if flexed too many times, no?
I don't want the hassle of mixing up an epoxy resin (1 minute of stirring an exact 50:50 mix etc)

> Kapton tape - polyimide film
Looks interesting.
Appears to resist high/low temperatures.
Not good resisting chaffing so not good in aeroplanes & spacecraft
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapton


> Helicopter tape?
Is that the same thing as Paint Protection Film (PPF)?
i.e. A fough thermoplastic polyurethane tape, made by 3M
Originally developed by 3M as a film to stick onto helicopter blades to protect them from scratches and physical damage caused by high-speed impact with light debris such as airborne sand.
Nowadays used to protect vulnerable areas of cars & bikes


> Solartex
Is this it? **LINK**
It appears to involve "a special heatseal adhesive on the back of the fabric", although it's not very clear how to use this. If pushed, I suppose I could cope with apply it with the help of a domestic iron. I am assuming that a domestic iron c.150°C to 230°C. But as well as being rather a pain to use, wouldn't the heat melt my styrene/ABS??
However although the melting point of polystyrene is 240°C it starts to flow at over 100°C (it's "glass transition temperature"
And the glass transition temperature for ABS is "100°C"
So an hot air gun may be a mistake??


Any further thoughts?

Finally, what would be the best place for me to ask for general modelling type technical advice questions?
As I am building models of new commercial products that are IP sensitive, rather than models that fit nicely into any obvious category of model, such as "aircraft", "maritime", "locos" etc.

Many thanks

OP

Jeff Dayman31/07/2019 15:42:45
1697 forum posts
45 photos

Is this an enquiry for commercial purposes?

John Smith 4731/07/2019 16:09:17
47 forum posts
Posted by Jeff Dayman on 31/07/2019 15:42:45:

Is this an enquiry for commercial purposes?

No. I am a private individual.

Grindstone Cowboy31/07/2019 16:29:39
166 forum posts
3 photos

Clear Gorilla tape?

Video here

John Smith 4701/08/2019 19:58:45
47 forum posts

Thank you. Gorilla tape is an interesting suggestion, but any money says that it doesn't "set". i.e. If my hinge on my model is in the sun and under sustained albeit gentle pressure it is almost bound to come apart, no?

OP

John Smith 4710/09/2019 12:56:21
47 forum posts

UPDATE I finally bought some special (fairly expensive) 3M tape called "396 Super Bond Polyester Film".

But although this tape is extremely tacky and has a high "grap", it has a rubber-resin adhesive, which doesn't seem to ever set and doesn't survive sustained forces very well. This is worse in higher temperatures, such as sunlight of course.

I also tried some of 3M's "4411N Extreme Sealing Tape", but this is rather thick and the hinge doesn't flap freely.

BUT I have just realised that book-binding technology could be the way forward!
i.e. I should get some fine cloth-type of of material and glue it with something that actually sets.

I am also considering changing the base material for my model to be some form of dead trees (hard board?) rather than styrene. So that might help too.

- Any thoughts?

J

Jeff Dayman10/09/2019 14:58:32
1697 forum posts
45 photos

"- Any thoughts?

J"

Here's a thought - you don't seem to take advice well.

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