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Myford Vice for Vertical Slide

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Mike Donnerstag12/07/2019 20:20:18
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I have an original Myford small vice for the vertical milling slide. I wondered whether anyone else has had a problem with the fact that the base of the fixed jaw has not been machined square but instead has an arris that pushes any square-edged material out of the vice slightly when the jaws are tightened. I was hoping to use the base of the vice as a reference surface. Am I wrong to expect to be able to do this?

Does anyone have an easy solution to this? Am I missing something?

Many thanks,

Mike

Mick B112/07/2019 21:47:03
1187 forum posts
66 photos

Don't really know what you mean by 'arris', and internet definitions don't really help.

My vice (which I *think* is a Myford) does seem to hold material square with in a thou or two on my double-swivel vertical slide.

If it didn't, I don't really see why I shouldn't skim it square with a decent carbide endmill - it's machinable. The finish wouldn't be as perfect as I'd like, but it'd be better than an out-of-square jaw.

If yours is not machinable, I'd say that's a good enough reason to spend not too much money on one that is - occasionally you might need to cut a special location.

John Haine12/07/2019 21:55:26
2607 forum posts
133 photos

Do you mean the small radius? I think it's there to prevent a stress build up if the corner was sharp. I've got used to putting a bit of packing in under the work.

Michael Gilligan12/07/2019 22:14:05
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Posted by Mick B1 on 12/07/2019 21:47:03:

Don't really know what you mean by 'arris', and internet definitions don't really help..

.

The definition given by Collins is good [well at least it equates to my previous understanding], but I'm afraid it is almost exactly opposite to Mike's usage: **LINK**

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/arris

I'm almost sure that Mike is referring to a small radius at the internal corner, between two faces.

MichaelG.

Michael Gilligan12/07/2019 22:21:07
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Posted by Mike Donnerstag on 12/07/2019 20:20:18:

Does anyone have an easy solution to this?

.

An easy solution might be to add a packing-piece to the fixed jaw, perhaps secured with little neodymium magnets.

MichaelG.

Berty13/07/2019 00:23:18
12 forum posts

I have heard of Arris Rail as in fencing. (A length of wood cut diagonally to form a triangular shaped end cross section). If the bottom jaw had this shape, in a much reduced form of course, then as Mike says, it would push the work out of the jaws.

Berty

John Baguley13/07/2019 01:01:08
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424 forum posts
46 photos

Hello Mike,

I'm not sure without looking in the workshop but on mine I think I just machined the corner square with an endmill for the reason you state.

It doesn't really get used nowadays as all my milling is done in the milling machines.

John

Andrew Moyes 113/07/2019 03:38:17
107 forum posts
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I've checked mine and for all practical purposes it's a square corner. Put it this way, it's never been an issue with the radius on any workpiece. Perhaps the milling cutter had become worn when yours was made. There is a 1/16" X 1/16" undercut on the moving jaw that ensures the jaws close tightly. I think you would be justified in cleaning out the corner or undercutting but the problem will be avoiding spoiling the sliding surface. Perhaps go in at a slight angle with a dovetail cutter? It would raise the stress as has been pointed out but I'd have thought there is enough in hand in the design.

Michael Gilligan13/07/2019 08:11:20
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13999 forum posts
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Mike,

A picture of the problem area might be useful

... worth a thousand words, they say.

MichaelG.

Mike Donnerstag13/07/2019 10:34:17
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92 forum posts
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Apologies to all, I had obviously misunderstood the word 'arris'. Next time I'll stop trying to be clever and use common English!

The photo below shows the radius at the base of the fixed jaw. I have been using packing, though I have no accurate parallels, so I expect the accuracy of the setup will be compromised. Would it be a good idea to run a narrow slitting saw at 45deg into the corner to remove the radiused section? Using a radius gauge, I found that the radius at base of the jaw is about 1/16". I'm surprised that Myford did not machine this truly square, or is this a common occurrence on machine vices?

img_1736 - copy.jpg

Journeyman13/07/2019 10:48:06
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609 forum posts
95 photos

The small radius in the corner is probably for stress relief, I would call it a fillet! You could fix a secondary jaw in place if you can drill a couple of holes through the fixed jaw (or even glue it) permanent packing. Many vices have replaceable jaws, you could even make a set with horizontal and vertical grooves for holding round stock.

John

Grindstone Cowboy13/07/2019 11:05:41
124 forum posts
1 photos

I guess that's an internal arris

I'd go with the slitting saw idea, I can't imagine there would be a problem with stress unless you're really overtightening the vice. If it's a worry then wouldn't a very small round nosed cutter (at 45 degrees) make a nicely rounded clearance cut?

Mike Donnerstag13/07/2019 12:11:45
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92 forum posts
9 photos

I like the idea of the round nosed cutter, which I assume would 'spread out' any stresses in the corner. I also like the idea of the replaceable jaws, though it would reduce the capacity of the vice. Does anyone have any photos of their own modified Myford vice? Or perhaps a better alternative vice that fits the standard-sized milling stand.

I also have a Groz 3-way swivelling vice, something like this:

groz 3-way swivel vice.jpg

However, the centres for the bolt holes won't fit the standard milling stand. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is it simply too big to be used for milling on the Myford?

Michael Gilligan13/07/2019 14:36:11
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13999 forum posts
608 photos
Posted by Journeyman on 13/07/2019 10:48:06:

... You could fix a secondary jaw in place if you can drill a couple of holes through the fixed jaw (or even glue it) permanent packing. Many vices have replaceable jaws, you could even make a set with horizontal and vertical grooves for holding round stock.

.

yes Much as I suggested last evening ... 'though I thought that magnets might be attractive.

< all groan >

MichaelG.

Alan Vos13/07/2019 14:58:56
136 forum posts
7 photos

Posted by Mike Donnerstag on 13/07/2019 10:34:17:

The photo below shows the radius at the base of the fixed jaw.

As an aside, I suggest using washers with a larger outside diameter to secure the vice. The washer under the top bolt is tipped into the slot. To work properly, the washers need to bridge the slot, plus a bit. There is probably a formula. You may need to put a flat on the side of larger washers. Or drill two holes in a strip of metal. Or whatever arrangement takes your fancy.

Mike Donnerstag13/07/2019 15:25:44
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92 forum posts
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Alan Vos: You're right - I hadn't noticed that! I will find or make more appropriate washers for the vice. Many thanks.

Mick B113/07/2019 20:18:33
1187 forum posts
66 photos

Seeing that radius at the base of your fixed jaw - from a firm like Myford - surprises me.

Here's mine:-millingvice.jpg

I now don't think it's Myford as it has no name on it. It was clearly designed to fit Myford slides, though, from the screwhole spacing. It came in a blue plastic box - long since lost in house moves - and I bought it at the Olympia show in 2003 for about 20 quid, and it's served me well since.

I thought all small milling vices were undercut like this to clear dirt and debris and ensure the location faces were definitive - to me, the radiused design looks like a bit of a rookie error.

Edited By Mick B1 on 13/07/2019 20:18:50

Mike Donnerstag13/07/2019 20:29:19
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92 forum posts
9 photos

That looks far more like what I would expect of a milling vice! Comparing the photos also serves to illustrate that I need better lighting in my workshop!!

Martyn Duncumb13/07/2019 20:37:32
24 forum posts
1 photos

Mike, I too have a Myford vice, purchased 40+ years ago, which is the same as yours with a radius at the bottom of the fixed jaw. I always assumed they were all made like this. Have no idea why though.

Martyn

John Haine13/07/2019 20:54:23
2607 forum posts
133 photos

I assume (to repeat) it's there to avoid stress concentration.

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