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stamford show vandals

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Neil Wyatt20/05/2019 22:44:41
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Let's not get political.

I'll just say that the best way to identify a civilised society is that it doesn't sink to the level of those that seek to undermine it.

I felt pretty uncomfortable seeing photos of crowds with signs saying 'Hang Asia Bibi' I am equally uncomfortable if those suggesting similar levels of punishment for the layout wreckers are serious.

Great hurt has been done to those whose work has been destroyed, and many of us feel like this is an attack on outr hobby by young people who don't understand or even mock us for 'playing trains'. But that doesn't give us licence to lash out.

Here's a suggestion, I know it might be hard for the club, but perhaps one good use for some of the donations would be to establish a model railway club at the school. Not for the perpetrators, but for their peers.

Neil

Mike Poole20/05/2019 23:08:40
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A similar thought ran through my head, the public generosity looks to have covered the aspect of the losses that money could buy but the club are going to have years of work to rebuild. I suspect a useful sum could be found to fund some sort of youth project that could engage some youngsters in making things rather than breaking things.

Mike

Blue Heeler21/05/2019 00:47:20
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Thankfully the UK courts can no longer send them to Australia !

I read that Rod Stewart was donating 10,000 pounds, that's a nice gesture and I hope that the victims in this terrible crime are feeling the support and will continue with their pastime that they enjoy.

thaiguzzi21/05/2019 03:26:27
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Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 20/05/2019 15:09:12:

Thaiguzzi. De-forrestation, Palm oil plantations ....... its all vandalism.

BobH

Er, thats governments, corporations and corruption. In SE Asia.

I was talking about vandalism in Britain.

Like for example, when i lived there, my 10 y/o non descript 1500 quid Merc parked outside my 2 bedroomed terraced house on the street had it's Star motif snapped off 3 times and keyed once. Meanwhile a newer 4 grand non descript Ford or Vauxhall was never touched.

Ditto my Moto Guzzi - keyed tank.

Why is their a class thing that exists in the UK that likes to damage stuff that they "presume" belongs to somebody posher?

Ditto, outdoor keep fit stuff for adults, playground stuff for kids, if it's not nailed down it's nicked, if it is nailed down, it's vandalized.

This stuff does not happen in Europe.

By the way i drove that beloved manual Merc in my oily greasy overalls to & fro from work.

Hopper21/05/2019 03:50:59
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Posted by thaiguzzi on 21/05/2019 03:26:27:

This stuff does not happen in Europe.

Oh yes it does. *LINK* Stupid instagram model (whatever that is) smashes nose off historic priceless Polish statue. Posts video of it. Then wonders why she loses her modelling contract.

Not to mention the great vandalism spree of 1939-45.

Human nature. It's universal. You ain't gonna change it. It seems the security arrangements at the model show did not allow for this. Looks like they ran rampage for quite a while before anyone showed up to stop them. It could not have been quiet with all that damage. Sad that a community event should have to plan for such scrotism but that's the way it is.

Martin Kyte21/05/2019 09:25:42
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Why is their a class thing that exists in the UK that likes to damage stuff that they "presume" belongs to somebody posher?

Not always the case. Consider the Bullingdon club.

Martin

SillyOldDuffer21/05/2019 10:04:33
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Posted by ronan walsh on 20/05/2019 22:21:34:
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/05/2019 20:32:45:
Posted by Mikelkie on 20/05/2019 19:10:24:
Posted by Harry Wilkes on 19/05/2019 15:25:46:.
...

... in my opinion the problem lies with the human rights bullshit, ...

...

No doubt Human Rights are imperfect but I submit we are better off with them than without.

Dave

So would you be all for the returning ISIS fighters to be given a council flat and generous social welfare payments ? Because thats what the liberal human rights nuts are fighting for.

Not at all Ronan! I think British citizens who return to the UK after committing a crime should be put on trial and - if found guilty - punished for what they did. I am not against severe punishments provided they are deserved and effective.

The point of Human Rights is that you don't want policemen, slimy politicians or paranoid dictators changing the rules as it takes their fancy. And, in the event a law is democratically passed that accidentally removes a Human Right, you want to live in a country were the injustice can be challenged. Human Rights are very much to your advantage.

Plenty of examples of vile behaviour on a grand scale when Human Rights are ignored: Stalinist Russia, Pol Pot, Nazi Germany, Rwanda, Apartheid South Africa, Jim Crow Laws, North Korea, the Cultural Revolution, Argentina's 'Dirty War', Armenia, and 'Ethnic Cleansing' etc etc etc.

Dave

Clive India21/05/2019 10:07:31
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Edited out - comments removed - an unsuccessful attempt to give a reason why this happened. Nobody listening.

Edited By Clive India on 21/05/2019 21:10:41

Chris Trice21/05/2019 10:10:57
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Victim impact statements should definitely form part of the judgement when it comes to sentencing. The psychological impact on these poor guys should not be dismissed as I'm sure many of them are devastated.

vintage engineer21/05/2019 10:15:32
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156 forum posts

Singapore is a very civilised country and very safe. This is because the punishments are quite severe but everyone knows what will happen if they break the law. These yobs would be caned with a ratten cane. There is very little crime in Singapore and this due to the public being full aware of the punishments and they fully support them.

Outside Changi Prison there are signs stating all intruders will be shot dead and they aren't joking!

vintage engineer21/05/2019 10:15:32
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156 forum posts

Singapore is a very civilised country and very safe. This is because the punishments are quite severe but everyone knows what will happen if they break the law. These yobs would be caned with a ratten cane. There is very little crime in Singapore and this due to the public being full aware of the punishments and they fully support them.

Outside Changi Prison there are signs stating all intruders will be shot dead and they aren't joking!

vintage engineer21/05/2019 10:15:33
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156 forum posts

Singapore is a very civilised country and very safe. This is because the punishments are quite severe but everyone knows what will happen if they break the law. These yobs would be caned with a ratten cane. There is very little crime in Singapore and this due to the public being full aware of the punishments and they fully support them.

Outside Changi Prison there are signs stating all intruders will be shot dead and they aren't joking!

duncan webster21/05/2019 11:35:47
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So do you want to live in a country which is hardly a functioning democracy, and scores 4 on a scale of freedom rating (7 is worst, 1 is best). UK rates at 1, same as Germany and Netherlands, slightly higher than France which is 1.5

SillyOldDuffer21/05/2019 12:25:19
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Threatening severe punishment doesn't work. People imagine vile threats should change behaviour, but in practice threats aren't effective. People would rather burn at the stake than recant religious dogma.

What makes a real difference to behaviour is the probability of getting caught. Efficient policing reduces crime even if the punishments are relatively mild.

There has to be an element of punishment, but no-one wants a penal system that produces brutalised career criminals with a permanent grudge.

Dave

Hopper21/05/2019 13:55:10
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Posted by duncan webster on 21/05/2019 11:35:47:

So do you want to live in a country which is hardly a functioning democracy, and scores 4 on a scale of freedom rating (7 is worst, 1 is best). UK rates at 1, same as Germany and Netherlands, slightly higher than France which is 1.5

Shhh. You'll end up in Changi with the rest of them who mentioned the government's shortcomings to someone else.

Plasma21/05/2019 15:55:17
331 forum posts
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SOD hit the nail on the head, fairly and squarely! The only thing strong deterrent sentences do is encourage a greater effort not to get caught. Remember the days when policemen were routinely murdered to avoid being caught, thankfully not as big a problem these days.

But the lack of any police presence in our communities is the prime cause of many of our current problems. My own small town is served by a police station miles away, despite having a modern former sub divisional HQ smack in the centre of it, which now houses toilet rolls in the cells and nothing but admin clerks.

If someone is locked up the nearest cells are in Sheffield, so there is a reason for cops not to arrest as they would wait ages to get into custody.

As I type there are trials bikes flying around on a public football field opposite my house, no helmets, two and three up, damaging the turf, not a cop in sight. Nothing to stop them, Nada, niet no one.

I'm told the officers are all dealing with other matters, far more serious than this. Which is frankly horse apples! They are dealing with the mountain of malicious, made up and downright pathetic troubles of the social media generation, all of which are labelled as hate crimes.

Facebook, snap chat and a host of other sites generate enough "he said, she said" rubbish to keep any force busy. School children take up time because teachers cannot control them in class.

Domestic disputes generate enquiries which take up many hours of work, only for the couple to kiss and make up after the requisite cooling off period. Dont get me wrong these can turn nasty, but the majority are just poor relationships staggering along for fear of being single and alone.

You can probably tell I'm an ex copper, brought up in the 80s when all I had was a stick, some cuffs and a note pad. Now they have body armour, cs gas, tasers, steel batons etc.etc. but still they are ineffective in many ways.

If I dial 101 i can wait for ever for an answer, and then only get a crime number or advice. Dealt with without deployment is the stock term. Last time I dialled 999 two disinterested officers ambled toward a group of youths who were fighting, then running off. They never tried to get to them let alone speak to anyone, just chase them off to be someone elses problem.

Get more cops on the streets where they belong , out of police cars and talking to the public, reassuring communities and deterring crime in equal measure.

Sorry turned into a bit of a rant that one.

I'm getting grumpy in my old age.

Best regards Mick

Samsaranda21/05/2019 16:22:40
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Mick, refreshing to hear from someone who has inside knowledge and experience of our justice system, I might add that your thoughts directly mirror those of my son in law who is a serving sergeant in the police, he has become so frustrated that the system is gradually disintegrating that he is counting the days, literally he has a calendar made out, till he can leave with his pension. It is a sorry state for our police to be in where those with experience and knowledge are so frustrated at not being able to police effectively, no wonder our society is disintegrating.

Dave W

vintage engineer21/05/2019 16:46:32
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156 forum posts

And you think we live in democracy?

 

Having lived in one party state countries they were a lot safer and you knew where you stood with the judiciary!

 

 

Posted by duncan webster on 21/05/2019 11:35:47:

So do you want to live in a country which is hardly a functioning democracy, and scores 4 on a scale of freedom rating (7 is worst, 1 is best). UK rates at 1, same as Germany and Netherlands, slightly higher than France which is 1.5

 

Edited By vintage engineer on 21/05/2019 16:51:02

Mike Poole21/05/2019 17:27:44
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It is rather fortunate that for most people it is not the fear of being caught that stops them committing a crime but the understanding that as civilised social people we do not steal or kill or damage our fellows or their property. Laws are not there to be broken if you can get away with it but to define the rules we wish to live by, correcting people who ruin the harmony of everyone else by whatever means is best should be the aim. Ideally we should put more effort into producing citizens who want to live in harmony with everyone else, we have failed if we need to correct people for exceeding our limits. Unfortunately the one bad Apple effect means good citizens can easily be sucked in to crime because we are ineffective at catching the bad Apple before the barrel is turned. Perhaps we should only be allowed to breed if we have qualified to be parents but I think living in a free society trumps that sort of thinking but we must win the argument for behaving with respect and consideration for one another, having a large number or people in prison is a poor reflection on our society.

Mike

Plasma21/05/2019 17:42:18
331 forum posts
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Apparently more than 50% of men questioned said they would engage in unconaensual sex with a woman (that's rape in case you wondered) if they were guaranteed not to be caught, that is a terrifying statistic.

Also a recent experiment where expensive razor blades were sold in the street many law abiding folks were happy to buy them despite being told they were hot etc. Happy to save a few quid despite knowing they were breaking the law.

Let's face it we are basically animals and the veneer of civilisation is very thin indeed.

Dave W I had the same calendar running for the last couple of years, it comes fast tell him.

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