|Roderick Jenkins||19/05/2019 17:32:56|
1814 forum posts
I don't think they deserve pudding
Some people just can't stand to see others achieving something. How sad.
|ronan walsh||19/05/2019 17:56:23|
|539 forum posts|
Its not just that, they encourage breeding of such rubbish by generous welfare payments. I see it all the time, have a kid and get payments you can blow on cheap beer, weed and gambling.
|Ian McVickers||19/05/2019 18:11:37|
|160 forum posts|
Total stupidity. They've destroyed a lifetime of work and will get a slap on the wrist.
|ronan walsh||19/05/2019 18:28:07|
|539 forum posts|
The club have a funding page open if anyone wants to give some money.
|Former Member||19/05/2019 18:47:27|
[This posting has been removed]
|Bill Chugg||19/05/2019 18:56:41|
|979 forum posts|
All we can do is donate to the fund and offer our free services for any repairs to engines as I have done and am sure other members will do likewise.
Edited By 34046 on 19/05/2019 19:12:36
Edited By 34046 on 19/05/2019 19:14:05
|Howard Lewis||19/05/2019 19:05:17|
|2730 forum posts|
How inhuman and ignoring THEIR human rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
How about the human rights of their victims?
"Why were they born so beautiful? Why were they born so tall?"
WHY WERE THEY BORN AT ALL?
That should get me banned as a subversive
|Mike Poole||19/05/2019 22:03:15|
2323 forum posts
Nice to see that this wanton act has touched people and the crowdfund has now topped £31,000, a significant sum but its difficult to replace the amount of human effort destroyed by the mindless idiots. Hope the club can make something special with the funds.
Edited By Mike Poole on 19/05/2019 22:03:41
4894 forum posts
This is going to affect all of us. Insurance premiums for clubs will undoubtedly rise mostly just to the benefit of the insurance company directors.
|Mike Poole||19/05/2019 23:31:00|
2323 forum posts
Most of us instinctively would like to see the perpetrators whipped with red hot barbed wire but would it be more constructive to show them the skill, effort and love that went into what they have destroyed? Making them understand what they have done would probably be more useful than a punishment. If the club members could stomach being in the same room as the perpetrators perhaps teaching them the skills to repair or replace the damage they have done would be an appropriate rehabilitation to become decent human beings. I do assume that most people are decent deep down but some need to have normal values shown to them as they may not have experienced them before, of course they may have normal behaviour inhibited by drugs or drink in which case rehabilitation can be more difficult. The back story to this outrage could be more complex than we know, the days when most of us had right and wrong clearly defined by our elders seem sadly to be a thing of the past, some of the young are being failed by not having the values of common decency imparted to them, I could have said watch Jeremy Kyle for examples but thankfully we can’t any more, the few times I saw the show was more in disbelief that such people exist and want to air their troubles on TV but no doubt the desperate are easily persuaded by money.
|Ian P||20/05/2019 07:24:53|
2300 forum posts
I 100% agree with Mike Poole's reply, he put into words exactly everything I thought when I saw the BBC report a few minutes after it appeared on their news website.
|Bill Chugg||20/05/2019 08:06:56|
|979 forum posts|
Mike Poole's reply - very well said Mike.
|350 forum posts|
Now the initial venom has died down, especially in me I hasten to add, I think Mike Poole deserves to be heard.
Restorative justice is what hes talking about, a concept we dont use as we have a cultural mindset based in punitive measures. Which clearly work so well, as our jails are empty and no one re offends.
If it did work we would only ever have executed or birched one criminal and never had to do it again.
But restorative justice can work, not for every case I admit, some psychopaths have no conscience upon which to work. But for a great many offenders it can work.
BUT MORE IMPORTANT than that is what it can do for their victims. It can bring some relief and peace and it can give them a voice; something our current justice system does not.
One of the most frequent questions a victim will ask is "Why me?"
Why did they do this to me, why now, why why why? The justice system does not set out to address this basic human response to harm.
Restorative justice does, it allows the victim to communicate with the offender and ask that simple question. And along with that maybe make some sense of what has happened.
Most times it can also help the offender but that's a happy addition and not the core reason to engage in restorative justice.
Just Google Why me? or watch a little video called the Woolf within and tell me you think it is modern rubbish. But I met Peter Woolf in person and I can tell you, it's better than what we waste millions on now.
Just my ten pennorth as an ex criminal justice system worker. My gut instinct was flog em, then I settled down and started thinking less passionately.
|1020 forum posts|
Restorative justice, fine but AFTER they've been whipped with red hot barbed wire. Not just a case of turning a few tables over but wanton destruction. Pity we don't have stocks anymore. Saudi Arabia have a good system.
|vintage engineer||20/05/2019 09:45:39|
217 forum posts
I am afraid we have become too soft. If we still had the birch there would be a lot less trouble. When you have been birched once you certainly do want a second helping!
|Neil Wyatt||20/05/2019 10:42:55|
17067 forum posts
This is a particularly offensive act because we can all empathise with the horror and despair of the people whose work has been destroyed.
It's easy to forget worse crimes happen, because this is so close to our own interests.
We know nothing about the perpetrators and why they did it, or what else they have or have not done. The punishment should be sufficient to show others that such behaviour won't be tolerated by our society, but ultimately this was 'damage to property' and as such it carries a maximum sentence of ten years. If first offenders and/or young teenagers the sentence is likely to be less as it will be proportionate to acts like physical assault, theft or sexual assault.
As Mike says the real aim needs to be making sure this doesn't turn into the start of a criminal career for the idiots who did it. They might have lists of ASBOs as long as your arm, or more likely they may be idiots who started with a prank and it got out of control. They may not all be equally culpable, and they may have mental health issues. It's easy to be angry; if someone destroyed my models I would be angry but I'd be far angrier if some assaulted a loved one.
Mostly, I hope the club are able to give victim statements, and given support beyond just a pile of cash.
I suspect this act is not unrelated to the decline in services for young people that also appears to be influencing violent crime in this age group. The real question isn't 'what do we do with the offenders?' but 'what does this tell us about our society?'
|Guy Lamb||20/05/2019 12:05:12|
|78 forum posts||
Very cogently put Neil. I often wonder how people who have lost loved ones to knife crime &c view our reaction to what is only 'criminal damage' to, all be it, someones pride and joy.
Because we as a group are creative people we tend to firstly identify with then over react to such events, that is not to denigrate the Stamford modelers situation in the way.
But, the "Hanging is too good for them" side of the debate need to take stock and think well on such pronouncements.
|Jon Lawes||20/05/2019 12:16:33|
340 forum posts
Mike has said it perfectly.
|colin hawes||20/05/2019 12:56:45|
|502 forum posts|
This sort of destruction is completely beyond my understanding and I like to think I can understand most things. We see the same sort of destructive attitude to flower displays and newly planted trees in parks when real humans think they are lovely and would like more. Wanton destruction should attract a long and very visible hard labour sentence of benefit to the community.
My sympathy goes out to the club.
|duncan webster||20/05/2019 13:26:22|
2335 forum posts
Around half of people released from prison will re-offend within a year. Doesn't say much for the effectiveness of prisons does it. Persistent criminals in Holland are ''given two-year sentences and tailor-made rehabilitation programmes. Fewer than 10% then return to prison after their release". The Dutch prison population has fallen by 43% in the last few years, at the same time crime has fallen by 25%. We lock up nearly 3 times as many people per head of population. What we need is more effective policing so that miscreants are caught, followed by proper supervision/training during probation/prison. UK has 208 policemen per 100,000 population, Holland has 381. We privatised out probation service so that profit became more important than rehabilitation.
More stats, prisoners per 100,000 population UK 140, France 104, Germany 75, Holland 61. I know politicians don't like to base their decisions on evidence, but it is pretty clear to me that we need a rethink, prisons as we run them clearly don't work.
Corporal punishment just shows offenders that violence against the person is acceptable, not quite the message we are trying to get across.
I will now get off my soapbox, and retire to the workshop.
This thread is closed.
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