|272 forum posts|
The mill I have has M10 T nut slots, but the mill is quite small. The table is only 150mm wide with three slots. M10 seems a bit of over kill and large, I am wondering if I should make M10 nuts but with M8 studs.
|Tim Stevens||09/05/2019 17:31:00|
1056 forum posts
The nuts need to fill the slots with a little clearance for swarf, etc. Which studs you use - as long as they fit within the slots - is up to you, so M8 would be OK but not so rigid, should you need it, as M10. Or, if you like, use UNF or BSF threads - but if you have a variety of thread choices, stamp the size on the T-nut so you don't get cross threaded, literally
|4597 forum posts|
You could, but I'd make studs to suit whatever you happen to have that needs bolting down.
The purpose of the stud is to stop things moving about on the table so generally the fatter the better. If your milling vice can take 10mm, use 10mm. If it takes 8mm, go 8mm. It's not that smaller diameter studs aren't strong enough, it's the reduced grip of the washer and nut plus the extra opportunity for bendy leverage that makes movement more likely. I have two different sizes on my mill because not all my accessories can accommodate full-size bolts.
|Clive Foster||09/05/2019 17:56:52|
|1807 forum posts|
Stick with M10 to hold the vice and, if you have or will have one, rotary table. Whilst on the subject of vices take a look at the recent thread on aligning vices and decide what method for rapid, adequately accurate alignment will suit you and your work best. For now. Of the quick and simple methods using M10 on special, fixed stud, Tee nuts would work with my pull back against the slots method. Going down to 8 mm would suit Vics version with an inverted Tee nut locating in the vice. Hafta say that if I were starting over I'd follow Vic version. Something better and more engineered comes later when you feel the need.
For general purpose Tee nuts on a machine of that size I'd go down to 6 mm, maybe even a few 4 mm ones too. The smaller sizes give you more options for passing studs through small jobs whlist still leaving room to machine things. Also let you use very short clamp bars. When I first had my little BCA the most used clamp bars were less than 2" long with integrated jack screws rather than the usual step blocks. Your relatively large slots take up a good deal of room on the small table. Consider making some clamp down straps with integrated 10 mm studs able to pass down into the slots. Often much more convenient than trying to bridge the slots so that ordinary step blocks can be used.
Something to consider in future is whether a grid of tapped holes plate will work better for you at holding things down than the Tee slot table. For example bought an aluminium breadboard with M6 tapped holes from Thor labs **LINK** to use with my, now long departed, BCA and found it well worth them money. Making would have been cheaper but I was relatively time poor and cash rich at the time. Tapping umpteen holes is boring too. Correct material for DIY would have been tooling plate which is relatlively expensive eating into DIY savings. If the size is right a double density version might be even better **LINK**. DIY means you can do what's perfect for you but it is more work.
|jason udall||09/05/2019 18:12:25|
|2011 forum posts|
I have some tee nuts...long version longer to spread load..
If you made long nuts tapped say 10 in the middle and say 6 mm and 8 mm either side..thus , as has been said you have the flexibility to use the thinner studs...
Edited By jason udall on 09/05/2019 18:13:28
16045 forum posts
Your table size falls between an X3 and a SX2.7, I've used M10 on my X3 for about 12 years and that suits the SX2.7 too.
On the odd occasion where I may need to get in close with a small cutter I have a few larger tee nuts threaded M6 so can use the old clamps etc from when I has a Unimat3
|272 forum posts|
Hmm, glad I asked, some dam good ideas here, it has got me thinking.
I have an old Abwood vice, it is about as wide as the table and 1/2 as long, very well built but wont take M10. So M8s for that a few other small sizes for specials and a full set in M10 sounds like a plan.
Multiple holes sounds good too
|Howard Lewis||09/05/2019 20:49:32|
|2212 forum posts|
You can produce quite an axial load with M6 nuts and studs (To my shame, I cracked a Cross Slide for a ML7 by overtightening 1/4 BSF nuts!)
M8 should be quite adequate. If the studs protrude through the nbottom of the Tee Nut, they may well mark the bottom of the slot. In an extreme situation, the top of the slot could be cracked.
My advice is to use studs, rather than setscrews or bolts.
I always adjust the studs so that they do not quite reach the bottom of the T Nut, and then centre punch them, around the edge, to stake them into place..
|414 forum posts|
GHT used 1/4" BSF threads in his Tee nuts on 3/8" clamping bars. This was on a Tom Senior mill.
|Nick Hulme||12/05/2019 17:12:38|
|698 forum posts|
If used correctly the threads should be acting purely in tension, a good M8 bolt will exceed your requirements, to say anything else is to demonstrate a lamentable lack of basic engineering knowledge.
|2208 forum posts|
My box full of clamping components has both M8 and M10 sizes for flexibility. I did this because I already had lots of bolts and studding in both sizes.
|Andrew Johnston||12/05/2019 19:11:33|
4780 forum posts
The bolt might be in tension but the threads themselves will be in shear. For many materials the shear strength is greater than the tensile strength. That's why a bolt shank will break before stripping the thread.
|Neil Wyatt||12/05/2019 22:39:16|
16436 forum posts
I'm with Clive, I use M6, M8 and M10 on my X2.
|Robin Graham||12/05/2019 22:46:42|
|577 forum posts|
I've always assumed that the shear forces (ie the forces parallel to the plane of the bed) when milling were carried by friction between the workpiece, or vice, or whatever you clamp to it, and the bed. In which case the shear strength of the fastener is immaterial, except in the sense that Andrew mentions. Is that wrong?
I recall reading of Colin Chapman saying - ' you can hang a double decker bus from a quarter inch bolt'. If that's true, given that the coefficient of friction between steel and steel is about 0.1, I agree with Nick that M8 will be more than sufficient.
Edited By Robin Graham on 12/05/2019 22:47:52
|Michael Gilligan||13/05/2019 07:18:33|
13823 forum posts
Your assumption is correct; and Andrew's very concise correction of Nick's statement is spot-on
|John Haine||13/05/2019 09:15:32|
|2591 forum posts|
It wasn't entirely clear from the OP, but I assume that the slots are 10mm wide - M10 is I think normally used as a thread description? An M10 stud would then need a 10mm clearance which would bring the crests uncomfortably close to the flanks of the nut. My Novamill has 10 mm wide tee slots, all the tee nuts that came with it and I have bought subsequently are M8. My VMB on the other hand has 12 mm wide slots, the standard 12 mm tee nuts are threaded M10.
16045 forum posts
I think Adrian has a BMD-25 mill which is what Engineer's Toolroom called the X3 so 12mm slots often described as "slotted for M10."
|Nicholas Farr||13/05/2019 10:34:24|
1945 forum posts
Hi John, so would you call a standard nut for an M10 bolt/stud, M17.
|John Haine||13/05/2019 11:10:34|
|2591 forum posts|
Of course not! The M prefix refers to threads.
|272 forum posts|
Sorry the OP was confusing, I had already identified the slots as M10 as per Howard Hall's Data book i.e. 12mm wide etc.
I am impressed JasonB can remember the make, it is a BMD-16 from Engineers Toolroom.
I may just have to be pragmatic. Having forgotten to buy M10 studding in Doncaster and having 30m of M8 studding, I guess I will tap them M8.
Please login to post a reply.
Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!
You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.
Click THIS LINK for full contact details.
For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.