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Lathe improvements?

Old man playing with lathes.

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Michael Gilligan31/07/2019 21:11:02
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14781 forum posts
635 photos

With your wonderful enhancements to the lathe, Neils ... that headstock casting is starting to look under-nourished !

MichaelG.

Niels Abildgaard17/08/2019 20:44:30
260 forum posts
89 photos

My son has fallen in love with the 180 lathe and I am preparing to send it out in the world.

wp_20190815_001[1].jpg

wp_20190817_002[1].jpg

It has got a 15mm steelplate between stone and headstock as support.I have also ordered a box with ER40 collets 3-26mm.

That means I will not be able by daily use to decide wich of the spindle variants

WM180 assembly

That is the one I have made

or the proposed is best.

I have  unscrewed 3jaw with backplate from present spindle and screwed the 4jaw plus backplate on and that is around 2 minutes.

I then put only backplate on again to simulate the new and maybe better spindle.

It takes a little more than three minutes to take the three long M6 bolts out ,place three-jaw in drawer

put four jaw on and secure with four long M6 screws.

The new configuration saves ca 20mm length for chucks but makes ER collets less accurate.

Can I have some advice before I write a letter to the Chineese embassy?

 

New spindle

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 17/08/2019 20:56:20

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 17/08/2019 21:04:09

old mart19/08/2019 13:59:56
1099 forum posts
113 photos

You will only know if a collet is good if you repeat the fitting with the collet at random positions and then take an average runout.

Niels Abildgaard23/08/2019 13:56:20
260 forum posts
89 photos

I have received a X-mas gift on my dorstep from Amazon four days after ordering.And paying 122 Euro

My 24mm testbar gives total run-out within one division (0.01mm) close to collet and plus minus 0.025(total 0.05) at cantilevered end 200mm away when put in 24 to 23 collet .In the 25-24 it hardly moves near collet and is plus minus 0.015 at free end.

Not bad

I have some spoiled carbide milling cutters and can test these close to collet.

The 12mm cutter in 13-12 collet is plus minus 0.03 but 13 is not a lucky number and in the proper 12-11 collet it is plus minus 0.01.

16mm cutter and10mm cutter run within one division in proper and proper plus one collets.

Very ,very satisfactory.

X-mas in August

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 23/08/2019 13:57:40

Niels Abildgaard02/10/2019 18:46:37
260 forum posts
89 photos

It has not been a cheap journey looking for the ultimate living room lathe, but quite fun.

Somehow I feelt a little fooled when I found this :

210 lathe 38mm spindle

Niels Abildgaard02/10/2019 19:33:31
260 forum posts
89 photos

and this:

700$ ideal lathe?

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 02/10/2019 19:38:42

Diogenes03/10/2019 08:36:02
37 forum posts
6 photos

..that is cheap, BUT..

..yours is built with personally-selected components that have been hand-fitted to meet your own specifications for performance, durability, and accuracy that you know to be absolutely true, because you made it yourself.. ..you can't buy that for $700..

Niels Abildgaard03/10/2019 09:04:32
260 forum posts
89 photos
Posted by Diogenes on 03/10/2019 08:36:02:

..that is cheap, BUT..

..yours is built with personally-selected components that have been hand-fitted to meet your own specifications for performance, durability, and accuracy that you know to be absolutely true, because you made it yourself.. ..you can't buy that for $700..

Thank You for support and my journey up til now has cost more than 700$ and have been enjoyable.

The original 210 spindle has a hole of 21mm and sits in two 30mm inner bearing rings.The holes in headstock is 62mm.

If we asume that the Dijin factory are boring 68mm headstock bearing seats, they can buy 32909 bearings and make spindles 45 mm outside.

Bending stifness of beams is a power four(Three?) function of diameter.

The standard 30/21 minilathe spindle stifness is 3*3*3*3-2.1*2.1*2.1*2.1 =62 something.

The new 45/38mm is (410-209=201) or more than three times more rigid

Why did Boxford not do something like it that?

Howard Lewis03/10/2019 16:15:24
2738 forum posts
2 photos

Niels,

You work is awesome. Your machine now bears NO relationship to what arrived on your doorstep.

You have made a very good silk purse, out of what may have been a sows ear..

Please accept my apologies if the English vernacular is strange to you!

Fantastic work, and a machine of which you can be really proud.

Howard

Niels Abildgaard03/10/2019 17:59:00
260 forum posts
89 photos
Posted by Howard Lewis on 03/10/2019 16:15:24:

Niels,

You work is awesome. Your machine now bears NO relationship to what arrived on your doorstep.

You have made a very good silk purse, out of what may have been a sows ear..

Please accept my apologies if the English vernacular is strange to you!

Fantastic work, and a machine of which you can be really proud.

Howard

Hello Howard and thank You for kind evaluation.

I have had five chinese lathes through my hands within the last two years.

A 280 that was much to heavy to handle for an old man.

It is by a friend and I use it for cast iron,brass and big jobs.

A 250 that I use now

A 210 very cheap from Amazon that faced convex and given away

A 180 from Amazon that crashed down before entering my house and I got a full refund thanks to Amazon

A Kaimac 180 that is the main subject here and is at my son and is appreciated but can be improved (he claims).

I never measured the crasher 180 but the four others have been very,very good when tested for roundnes and cylindritis or watchmacall it.

Facing was very,very sligthly concave on all but the cheap 210 that was obscene convex.

They have all been better out of box than the My,Boxers I have known and it can have something to do with modern laser control and alingnment of the machine tools in China.

It will be worth watching if the Dijin factory can make a good run with the 38mm bore 210 lathe.

Niels Abildgaard27/10/2019 12:13:49
260 forum posts
89 photos

It is getting out of this world.

The 210 lathe with 38mm bore was assumed to have bearings 45mm bore ,68mm outside and15mm wide .

It has not

 

210 lathe with 30209 bearing

 

These bearings are 45mm inside ,85mm outside and 22,5mm wide.

That means I can put in 32912 bearings (60 mm bore,85 outside and 17mm wide) and thus have a 50mm through bore spindle.

Please help me with some arguments for this new toy I want.

I found the picture here

 

Gun nuts galore

 

The thread has some interesting  change gear calculators.

This will be nessecary as spindle gear must have at least 70 teeth.

 

 

 

 

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 27/10/2019 12:18:29

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 27/10/2019 12:20:19

Michael Gilligan27/10/2019 12:21:08
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14781 forum posts
635 photos
Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 27/10/2019 12:13:49:

[…]

210 lathe with 30209 bearing

These bearings are 45mm inside ,85mm outside and 22,5mm wide.

That means I can put in 32912 bearings (60 mm bore,85 outside and 17mm wide) and thus have a 50mm through bore spindle.

Please help me with some arguments for this new toy I want.

[…]

.

Just go for it, Niels yes

You are sure to find a use for 50mm bore sometime.

MichaelG.

Niels Abildgaard27/10/2019 17:46:18
260 forum posts
89 photos
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 27/10/2019 12:21:08:

Just go for it, Niels yes

You are sure to find a use for 50mm bore sometime.

MichaelG.

Thank You for encouragement.

I will find an excuse.

It can maybe be had here

Big-bore monsterlathe

 

I

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 27/10/2019 17:50:11

DiogenesII27/10/2019 19:02:03
57 forum posts
6 photos

Ha, Niels, this must be an even more temping project now than it looked at the beginning of October - you will need one of these;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MT6-MORSE-TAPER-LATHE-DEAD-CENTRE-HARDENED-GROUND-Quality-Heavy-Duty-Tool-/132174226697

Have fun

D

Niels Abildgaard28/10/2019 08:11:08
260 forum posts
89 photos
Posted by DiogenesII on 27/10/2019 19:02:03:

Ha, Niels, this must be an even more temping project now than it looked at the beginning of October - you will need one of these;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MT6-MORSE-TAPER-LATHE-DEAD-CENTRE-HARDENED-GROUND-Quality-Heavy-Duty-Tool-/132174226697

Have fun

D

I will try to treat it as fun and not as the utmost importance to humanity,but it is difficult.

Morsecones was classified as so last century by the late John Stevenson and I tend to agree after having met ER collets.

A very preliminary dimensional sketch showing the 92mm recess machined in situ.This can then cary a wast array of chucks,faceplates and ER collet plates.

mega.jpg

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 28/10/2019 08:14:08

Niels Abildgaard19/01/2020 20:09:21
260 forum posts
89 photos

The sketch from 28 oct was my plan for making a small envelope,oilfield lathe with a spindle bore of 50mm.

I did buy a WM210* 400 with 38mm bore lathe and took it apart.

wp_20191124_003[1].jpg

Quality on spindle and chuck was abyssmal.

wp_20191124_001[1].jpg

I did not throw it on scrapheap but sold it very cheap after having informed him clearly what was wrong.

He lives 20km from here and lathe is running.He have agreed to let me try a bighole spindle if I ever finishes such one.

wp_20200119_002[1].jpg

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 19/01/2020 20:10:44

Niels Abildgaard19/01/2020 20:34:55
260 forum posts
89 photos

Intention is to copperbraze some almost finished flanges unto some thin-walled steel pipes of good quality.

And then see if my WM250 lathe can make it.My WM250 lathe has the same 62mm bearing holes like almost all other chineese and austrian mini lathes.

Thats to small.

I tried to part of some 100mm steel and that was not possible.

75mm steel worked but was neither easy or nice.

There is really a need for bigger hobby lathe spindles.

The monster WM210/38 bore lathe came with two 45/85/22mm spindle bearings and can then have a 38mm bore.

Slim bearings (32912 or 60/85/17mm) can hold a new homemade spindle with 50 or51mm bore.

It spoils my sleep that I can also fit bearing/spindle set as shown

ultragalimatias.jpg

The lower spindle half is the standard 45/85/22mm bearings and spindle from China.

The upper half shows cantilevered bearings of 75/105/20mm and spindle bore can easily be 65mm.

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 19/01/2020 20:55:10

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 19/01/2020 20:57:56

Niels Abildgaard19/01/2020 20:52:11
260 forum posts
89 photos

The cantilevered bearing scheme can also be applied to my very well made WM250 lathe with its lousy 62mm bearing bores.

Spindle outside diameter can be 55 mm and hole through 45- 46mm.

.

This is better than all other lathes with 62mm bearing holes were it must be less than 40mm.

What does readers think will be max value for mankind?

symmer 46 55 250.jpg

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 19/01/2020 20:53:00

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 19/01/2020 20:59:45

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