By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale Oct 22nd

Moving from Warco WM180 to a Myford ML7B ?

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Kevin Murrell08/04/2019 16:56:20
26 forum posts
2 photos

Dear all

I have the chance of changing to a (used obviously) ML7B from my first lathe which is a Warco WM180. Would I be excited or disappointed? The Myford is big enough for what I typically do, but I like insert tooling - would the Myford be fast enough?

Thanks all

Kevin

Nicholas Wheeler 108/04/2019 18:22:58
275 forum posts
16 photos

What are you expecting the Myford to do better?

I wouldn't want to lose the variable speed, bolt on chucks and larger spindle bore for a very similar work envelope. And I certainly wouldn't pay for the backward step

SillyOldDuffer08/04/2019 18:35:02
4721 forum posts
1010 photos

Might not matter to you Kevin but I turned down a good Super7 recently mainly because I'm metric. That disadvantage, plus the cost, and the fuss of swapping out an existing lathe which already does what I want put me off. Pity really, I knew the machine's history and would have jumped at it when I was a beginner and added a DRO.

Dave

Mick B108/04/2019 19:10:53
1190 forum posts
66 photos
Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 08/04/2019 18:22:58:

What are you expecting the Myford to do better?

I wouldn't want to lose the variable speed, bolt on chucks and larger spindle bore for a very similar work envelope. And I certainly wouldn't pay for the backward step

+1 on that. I think it'd be a sideways move at best, unless the Myford's very tidy and there're a lot of accessories with it that you don't have for the Warco.

Barrie Lever08/04/2019 20:29:17
323 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 08/04/2019 18:22:58:

What are you expecting the Myford to do better?

More or less everything assuming it is in good condition, a great lathe.

And no I do not own a Myford but have in the past.

B.

mechman4809/04/2019 12:18:17
avatar
2461 forum posts
371 photos

I have always hankered after a Myford; particularly the super 7B myself, but they are always priced in the 'silly money' bracket, so my first lathe was a Clarke C500 combi which did ok initially. I have ended up with a WM250V-F lathe & a WM 16 mill which I bought at the Harrogate exhib' back in 2012 for a good package deal, & with the express approval of the finance director. Both have served me fine to date especially with the variable speed on both machines & the larger bore on the WM 250 so from my perspective I can only comment on Warco's equipment, at the end of the day it's your choice.

George.

SillyOldDuffer09/04/2019 13:46:39
4721 forum posts
1010 photos
Posted by Barrie Lever on 08/04/2019 20:29:17:
Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 08/04/2019 18:22:58:

What are you expecting the Myford to do better?

More or less everything assuming it is in good condition, a great lathe.

And no I do not own a Myford but have in the past.

B.

More or less everything? Can you be more specific Barrie? I doubt you could tell the difference in a blind test between a 12.7mm diameter rod turned on a Myford ML7 and another turned on a Warco 180.

My recent play with a Myford indicated that although it certainly looked and felt better than Chinese lathes the actual performance was similar. Plenty of good things to like about Myford, but there are negatives too: a single-phase motor - adequate rather than smooth or powerful, fixed speed, screw-on chuck (dubious reverse), small bore spindle, and not good with carbide due to low speed and a bendy gap bed. Also plenty of opportunity for hidden abuse over the years - lubricated with grease rather than oil, missing gear teeth, poor maintenance and dodgy electrics etc.

Dave

Barrie Lever09/04/2019 19:10:27
323 forum posts
1 photos

Dave

Firstly I would assume that the Myford was in good condition, therefore anything to do with poor maintenance and abuse is out of the window in this discussion.

I see positives for the Myford is the machines mass, this always helps with ridigity and damping vibrations, thus accuracy and finish , Myford will be acurately aligned.

I never find a small spindle through hole a problem, I turn 50mm diameter material 250mm out from the chuck on my Compact 5 using a fixed steady and centre, I would do the same if using a Myford.

The slow spindle speed is not really a problem with carbide inserts, I had never even heard of carbide inserts being a problem at lower speeds before joining this forum. I always use carbide tooling unless I need a special wierd shape tool which I grind from HSS as required, I often turn at 200 rpm with carbide in my EMCO Compact 5. Carbide also does not mind taking wafer thin cuts, that is another falicy perpetrated on this forum.

I would say that the slow spindle speed will likely give the Myford good torque for harder turning jobs assuming it has a resonable size motor fitted. the WM180's 600W will soon get gobbled up on a tough job. The WM180 in size etc looks similar to a Compact 5 excepting that the WM180 has more centre height, I would say that the WM180 and Compact 5 are in a similar league regarding size capability.

I would never consider a Compact 5 to match a an ML7 in anything other than accurcay assuming work is taken slowly, the Myford is whole chunk bigger than these smaller lathes, I have owned both and I would prefer a Myford 7 to a Compact 5. I therefore struggle to see how Kevin will find moving to an ML7 as anything other than a good step forwards.

There is a reason that Myfords are very popular and expensive in the second hand market and it is not vanity!!

B.

Edited By Barrie Lever on 09/04/2019 19:16:11

Edited By Barrie Lever on 09/04/2019 19:19:39

Roderick Jenkins09/04/2019 20:16:02
avatar
1776 forum posts
456 photos

The major difference is the abilty to swing 10" in the gap and 20" between centres. The back gear helps to deal with the large diameters. The other plus for the Myford is the availability of accessories and/or kits and plans to make them yourself. These things may or may not be important to you.

R

Andrew Johnston09/04/2019 20:59:27
avatar
4855 forum posts
544 photos
Posted by Barrie Lever on 09/04/2019 19:10:27:

The slow spindle speed is not really a problem with carbide inserts, I had never even heard of carbide inserts being a problem at lower speeds before joining this forum. I always use carbide tooling unless I need a special wierd shape tool which I grind from HSS as required, I often turn at 200 rpm with carbide in my EMCO Compact 5. Carbide also does not mind taking wafer thin cuts, that is another falicy perpetrated on this forum.

That's not my experience. Of course it depends upon the material and insert, but in some cases you do not get a good finish unless running at high spindle speeds. Likewise some materials will give a good finish with small DOC, others will not. Have a read of this thread:

**LINK**

Andrew

Barrie Lever09/04/2019 23:02:27
323 forum posts
1 photos

Andrew

I probably should have said that the majority of my turning is on aluminium parts.

I will read your tests in more detail later.

Anyhow some quite strong arguments in favour of the old Myford.

B.

choochoo_baloo09/04/2019 23:39:41
avatar
183 forum posts
25 photos
Posted by Kevin Murrell on 08/04/2019 16:56:20:

Dear all

I have the chance of changing to a (used obviously) ML7B from my first lathe which is a Warco WM180. Would I be excited or disappointed? The Myford is big enough for what I typically do, but I like insert tooling - would the Myford be fast enough?

Thanks all

Kevin

Kevin, I'm a relative newcomer, but here's my input:

Comparing a club workshop "Chinesium" lathe (which I've used a bit) vs my similar sized home Myford ML7 good/very good condition, the Myford is just better built throughout. Full stop.

As I've learnt from the chaps on here, plain metal mass counts for a lot in terms of resistance to flexure, rigidity etc. The Chinesium lathe I mentioned was just a tad flimsy and 'fold up sheet' like. The Axminster ones I fiddled with in their showroom were mediocre in my opinion too.

Yeah the spindle bore aint great and the white metal bearings are inferior to modern designs, but there's a reason they're the 'old guard' for model engineers (yes the prices of some Super 7 are stupid)!

Hopper10/04/2019 05:17:48
avatar
3715 forum posts
73 photos

Buy the Myford and keep the Warco as well. Give the Myford a good try out. Then sell the Warco.

Edited By Hopper on 10/04/2019 05:18:43

Kevin Murrell10/04/2019 09:17:45
26 forum posts
2 photos

Many thanks all!

I am indeed doing what Hopper suggested. Getting the Myford and keeping the Warco.

I am treating myself to find out what all the fuss about old Myford lathes is about. If I don't like it after all, then someone else will certainly fancy trying it out!

Kevin

Michael Gilligan10/04/2019 09:27:35
avatar
14024 forum posts
609 photos

Good move, Kevin ... "Go Compare"

and please do share your findings..

MichaelG.

Hopper10/04/2019 10:03:31
avatar
3715 forum posts
73 photos

Well done!

One thing to look at when comparing these two lathes is the width of the bed ways in comparison to the centre height.

The Myford has a 3-1/2" centre height above the bed, and the bed ways width is 4-1/2". So the triangle between the bed ways and spindle is wider than it is high. This gives good stability for the carriage and cross-slide through to the cutting tip.

Some Chinese lathes I have looked at seem to be the other way round. The bed is narrower than the centre height. This results in the opposite, a triangle that is higher than it is wide, and thus inherently relatively unstable. That is why some Chinese lathes tend to look as if the cross slide and top slide are artificially perched up a bit higher than necessary. But it does give them that extra swing they like to emphasize in the sales brochures.

Would be interested to know the WM180 bed width in comparison. The added rigidity of the bigger Myford is not just due to mass but also this design feature perhaps.

And it's not just a pet theory of mine. One of the design criteria for top-line toolroom lathes is that the bed is wider than the centre height. They tend to go to the opposite extreme, the chuck looks like they mounted it an inch or two lower than they could have done.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts as you "acclimatize" yourself to the new machine.

Andrew Johnston10/04/2019 11:03:20
avatar
4855 forum posts
544 photos
Posted by Barrie Lever on 09/04/2019 23:02:27:

I probably should have said that the majority of my turning is on aluminium parts.

Aluminium is very forgiving, especially if using CCGT inserts. I turn mostly steel, cast iron, stainless steel and bronze/brass. For some of those materials speeds, feeds and DOC are important, and statements regarding them are definitely not a fallacy. smile

Andrew

Edited By Andrew Johnston on 10/04/2019 11:03:51

Mick B110/04/2019 12:13:46
1190 forum posts
66 photos
Posted by Hopper on 10/04/2019 10:03:31:

Well done!

One thing to look at when comparing these two lathes is the width of the bed ways in comparison to the centre height.

The Myford has a 3-1/2" centre height above the bed, and the bed ways width is 4-1/2". So the triangle between the bed ways and spindle is wider than it is high. This gives good stability for the carriage and cross-slide through to the cutting tip.

Some Chinese lathes I have looked at seem to be the other way round.

...

This controversy can go on for ever - the above isn't a decisive hit. My WM250V has, as its model no. suggests, a CH of 125mm. Bed width is just a bit more at 130. I wouldn't imagine the WM180's materially worse.

My Myford Speed 10 had a CH of 3 1/4" and a bed width of 3", so if that's a design rule, Myford didn't stick by it.

Michael Gilligan10/04/2019 12:51:48
avatar
14024 forum posts
609 photos

Posted by Mick B1 on 10/04/2019 12:13:46:

My Myford Speed 10 had a CH of 3 1/4" and a bed width of 3", so if that's a design rule, Myford didn't stick by it.

.

Geometrically [rather than materials-wise] Myford was in good company, using that bed profile: **LINK**

http://www.babinmachine.com/index.php?HARDINGEDV59

MichaelG.

JasonB10/04/2019 12:57:05
avatar
Moderator
16283 forum posts
1722 photos
1 articles

Problem is the Hardinges went too far as it needs a lot of effort to move the tailstock on something like an HL-V due to stiction, have even read of some owners extending the carrage rack and adding a handwheel to the tailstock so they can move it.

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Support Our Partners
TRANSWAVE Converters
Ausee.com.au
cowbells
Warco
ChesterUK
Eccentric Engineering
Meridenne Boat 2019
Eccentric July 5 2018
Allendale Electronics
emcomachinetools
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest