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Further Adventures with the Sieg KX3 & KX1

A thread for new owners of these machines to post in.

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JasonB20/01/2021 07:23:27
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Apart from when I was adjusting the flow and got a bit too much and sent a bit of swarf flying I was more than happy with how little got spread about and was really no more than may have ended up there anyway.

This is the swarf in the trough and the small amount on the bench next to the machine after doing both sides of one flywheel. I have teed off the air so I can still have the air gun if needed.

20210119_133651[1].jpg

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20210118_133831[1].jpg

Ian Johnson 113/02/2021 23:17:47
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I've not done a lot of CNC work on my KX1 recently, but I am making a little tailstock for the 4th axis, just in case I want to do some gear cutting on a mandrel or something that requires supporting.

This is a little M6 brass thumb screw for the tailstock. I prefer a spline (or grooves) rather than a knurl, I think it looks better and gives better grip.

So if you want a bit of CNC action here's a link to a short YouTube video of machining the splines on the KX1, using my handwritten program for 18 splines. Works quite well!

https://youtu.be/FPoTh36CF54

If the link doesn't work here is a photo instead (with the 4th axis in the background)

splined thumb screw on the kx1 cnc mill.jpg

IanJ

Edited By JasonB on 14/02/2021 07:04:39

JasonB14/02/2021 07:05:19
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Good use of the corner of the cutter, gives a higher cutting speed than a Vee tool.

Ron Laden14/02/2021 07:29:55
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Ian, I must be missing something but the end mill will cut a 90 degree V wouldn't it but the V,s in the final picture look less than 90..? or at least that's how it looks.

Ron

Zan14/02/2021 10:16:28
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Interesting stuff Jason, always fascinating to see your efforts , you are teaching us all so much with your experience. Keep it coming!

how exactly did you align each side of the flywheel when flipping it over? I’m intending to do something similar, and considered a pin in the central bore then another removable one to mate with one face of the 1” dia holes you produced

did you use the “ tool stay down” feature ( can’t remember the exact wording} when doing the initial adaptive clearance?

Ian Johnson 114/02/2021 11:15:48
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Posted by Ron Laden on 14/02/2021 07:29:55:

Ian, I must be missing something but the end mill will cut a 90 degree V wouldn't it but the V,s in the final picture look less than 90..? or at least that's how it looks.

Ron

You are right Ron, the V is not perfect, I aligned the cutter edge to 45 degrees from the centre of the job, moved the Y and Z axis equally and was out by a few thou! I think the Z axis zeroed itself, or I pressed zero by mistake and I over corrected the error.

Ron Laden14/02/2021 12:33:57
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Hi Ian

At least I know I,m not seeing things, not that it matters of course the thumb screw looks fine. I like that idea grooves rather than knurling, I need a pair for something thats coming up and I dont have a knurling tool so will give that a go.

Ron

JasonB14/02/2021 16:16:04
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Thanks Zan, if you have a look at my post dated 17th Jan on this page you can see my setup of a piece of crankshaft material held in a collet to locate X&Y, blocks to locate in Z and the last photo shows the mark on the rim which was lined up with a pointer held in the spindle.

Ron, if you have a spotting drill that can also be used as a Vee cutter held vertically above the work's ctr line. Another option is to hold the work with it's axis vertically and plunge down with a small diameter cutter to take out half circles.

Ian Johnson 114/02/2021 16:49:43
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Posted by JasonB on 14/02/2021 07:05:19:

Good use of the corner of the cutter, gives a higher cutting speed than a Vee tool.

Thanks Jason I think it produces a decent V shape, but like Ron pointed out it can look a bit 'off' if not set up correctly, it will produce a 'L' shape, although it will still be 90 degrees. I have made a few knobs and wheels with this method, mainly to get used to using the 4th axis.

IanJ

Ron Laden14/02/2021 19:39:23
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Posted by JasonB on 14/02/2021 16:16:04:

Ron, if you have a spotting drill that can also be used as a Vee cutter held vertically above the work's ctr line. Another option is to hold the work with it's axis vertically and plunge down with a small diameter cutter to take out half circles.

Thanks Jason, I do have a couple of spotting drills but never thought of using them as Vee cutters, makes sense when you look at the business end of a spotting drill. It also seems obvious to hold the work vertical and plunge cut the half circles, only thing is it wasnt obvious to me until you told me..lol.

Zan18/04/2021 10:24:56
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Hi Jason, I’m trying to do a small flywheel in 360 3” dia. I see in your video that the cutter goes round edges of the drilled holes and does not air cut . The cam cannot see these holes and thinks it’s a solid material so will try to cur them, not a problem nut all adds to the machining time. This would be easy in the ventricles 2d (which I now no longer use. Having to manually create contours) by just adding another circle on the face of the stock
as it’s impossible to add a hole in the blank in the design model where there’s no material, so there’s no hole edge to pick up how did you convince the cam to go round your holes???

Next Now that steep and shallow has gone from the free 360 version, what’s the best 3D cutting type. This is the first 3D Iv attempted, and all the path options in 360 seem to be very similar I have seen you using scallop, and contour I think so which is the best, I did see the discussion with regard to matching the tee piece

ps I did actually add a tube feature with a very thin wall , this seemed to work, but it’s very crude and I was wondering how you produced this bit of magic! The trouble with 360 is the bewildering no of options which can be confusing when it’s only used about once a week. It always seems to take so long to create the 3D design and cam strategy

thanks. Graham

Edited By Zan on 18/04/2021 10:26:56

JasonB18/04/2021 13:51:35
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Hi Zan, The correct waty to do it would be to draw as separate part that is the shape of what comes off the lathe and mill/drill and use that when you are doing the setup by selecting "from solid" rather than box or cylinder but as I do it a bit differently.

This is the part as it was ready to put on the CNC, the OD and sides have been machines, the width of the hub has been machined and the 6 holes drilled

Part as imported into F360

fw1.jpg

So the setup I used was a fixed size cylinder dimensioned as the actual finished turned size. I then did an adaptive cut to emulate the turning of the raised hub with 0.5mm radial stock left but zero axial stock left as I had machined the side of the rim to finished size.

fw2.jpg

I then did another adaptive cut selecting a large diameter cutter and left some radial and axial stock, by playing about with cutter/stock you can get a hole about the size you have actually drilled.

fw3.jpg

From there I did the actual adaptive cut I intended to use making sure to select "from Previous" in the ticked "rest machining" section of the geometry. I used a 6mm cutter for this 1mm max load, 4mm max stepdown 0.8mm fine stepdown.

Then the finishing cut was all done using scallop marking the turned surfaces as ones to be avoided.

When you come to do the post process you don't do it for the first two but just start with the 6mm adaptive and it thinks the earlier two have been done on the CNC not separately.

It takes longer to explain than actually do. Hopefully if you click here it will open up my CAM file in F360 so you can run the simulation and look at the various paths. There are two setups as the other side of the flywheel is slightly different so one setup for each side.

Zan18/04/2021 19:38:09
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Ah so you don’t actually “drill” in the cam bit but use a virtual large milling tool in the triangular pocket which is too big to get into the corners ( which is used to fool the cam). I think the rest machining is designed to take out missing parts which the bigger.  Cutters can’t get into not used that yet, so many complex things in 360.  Not seen or used the “from previous “ more investigation,
thanks for that explanation. I’ll look at it on the desktop later
Thanks

 

ps keep your exploits coming!

Edited By Zan on 18/04/2021 19:43:33

JasonB18/04/2021 20:16:53
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Yes there is a lot in F360 still to find but quite enjoyable to play around and see what it can do.

Should be another adventure soon, the cylinder for the parts I was making the crankcase and manifold for on the previous page is just about complete.

Jimmeh18/04/2021 22:06:17
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A slight variation on Jasons approach would be to create a sketch with 6 points on the hole centres. You can then stick a drill through the stock at these locations in CAM to obtain the correct starting material.

Edited By Jimmeh on 18/04/2021 22:07:03

JasonB25/04/2021 18:36:00
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With the Stuart Victoria out of the way it was time to continue the adventure and do some more work on the 11cc Wall engine.

I'll do a full write up at some time but this shows some of the work on the cylinder. Starting with some 50mm EN1A in the manual lathe it was faced and rough bored and the fins cut which was quite complex as each fin is a different diameter so the tapered sides vary on each.

Then onto the CNC to first rough out and finish the bottom flange and also add the screw holes at the same setting. With that done the cylinder was repositioned onto it's side to cut out a shaped pocket to accept the manifold flange (there is a simpler one on the other side too) Then so 30mm round bar was shaped to fit the cut outs, I found they were a little tight so tweaked the CAM by entering the tool diameter as 5.95mm rather than 6.0mm so it took off a fraction more material which allowed the bosses to be tapped in with a small copper hammer. I think the tool was deflecting slightly in the internal corners due to the larger engagement plus I was cutting a bit deeper than the flutes when profiling the boss - you can see the top 2-3mm is duller and not reflecting my finger as well.

Finally back to the manual machines to curve the inner faces of the bosses before silver soldering it all together after which it was finish machined. Last job was a quick sandblast to clean it up as my well used pickling acid tends to leave the steel with a copper coating.

Ron Laden26/04/2021 15:15:27
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Nice work Jason as usual.

I notice that the tool is climb milling its way around the part is that something that is a normal approach with CNC or is it for a better finish less tool loading etc..?

Ron

JasonB26/04/2021 15:44:21
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Very common on CNC work, I do it almost all the time and machine/tool sounds a lot happier doing it that way

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