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Steel identification

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AJW16/03/2019 16:30:22
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257 forum posts
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I shall shortly be making a crankshaft for my new Whippet engine. Material specified for this is EN16T, a high tensile steel.

Having a rummage under the bench I found a couple of pieces which could be potential candidates. One piece has a red/yellow paint on the end - I take it some sort of colour code, anyone know recognise this as an identification mark?

Another piece is totally unmarked so is anybody's guess but is there a way of identifying it?

Alan

JasonB16/03/2019 16:51:27
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Parker Steel is the one I usually look at for colours

There are spark tests but don't know how closely you could tie it down by that method.

Clive Foster16/03/2019 16:57:40
1639 forum posts
45 photos

Colour codes are supplier specific so unless you know who it came from .... Many companies using only a limited range of materials had their own system too.

No way of identifying steel types in the home shop beyond the spark test rough classification. Bigger scrap merchants probably have a device to read off composition but even thats no help when it comes to heat treatment or tensile range status.

Clive.

AJW16/03/2019 18:58:43
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Thanks, seems like I will be putting them back under the bench!

Have to source a bit of the required material.

Alan

JohnF16/03/2019 20:18:25
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Alan, plus 1 for Clive's post but what I do is mark all my stock so I know what's what, I don't use any commercial sequence just one that's developed for several reasons, one being where I served my apprenticeship all gauge plate had a blue stripe painted on it so I continued this and although Stubbs SS was stamped I used the same paint on the bar ends. Then acquiring several car touch up paints -- the ones with a small brush inside --- I used whatever was available for common steels I use. You only need around six colours so maybe small Humbrol tins would do ?

I do have a small problem to address -- I can never repaint the workshop door -- this has all the colour charts make on it !!!!

Cheers John

AJW16/03/2019 21:20:57
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257 forum posts
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I have makes bits that have bought and I know what they are trouble is I have 'aquired' my stock (as in bits) over the years and most of is classified as 'steel'!

Alan

duncan webster16/03/2019 21:22:46
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What size do you need? Someone might have a bit kicking around. I'd be surprised if EN8 woudln't do, there's not that much difference

vintage engineer17/03/2019 10:35:46
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Posted by duncan webster on 16/03/2019 21:22:46:

What size do you need? Someone might have a bit kicking around. I'd be surprised if EN8 woudln't do, there's not that much difference

There is a lot of difference. I have seen steering arms made from en8 snap like carrots! I always use en16t or 24t and so far none have ever broke.

I always mark offcuts with number stamps so I don't use the wrong steel for the wrong job.

AJW17/03/2019 13:35:23
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257 forum posts
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Thanks for the ideas, I have found a source of the correct spec.

 

Alan

Edited By AJW on 17/03/2019 13:36:24

David Colwill17/03/2019 15:20:05
563 forum posts
32 photos

Hi,

I had to order a length of 16mm diameter EN24T from a supplier in Birmingham because it was out of stock at my usual suppliers. When I turned up the chap started rummaging around on a rack saying this might be it, he promptly went off to the office and came back with a small handheld gun which he pointed at said steel. A small LCD display clearly labeled it as EN24t and listed its chemical composition. I went away very impressed.

Sadly these things are £8000 plus. Given the way electronics is going, perhaps every home workshop will have one one day

Regards.

David.

vintage engineer17/03/2019 23:20:35
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89 forum posts

Most scrap yards use these now, especially on stainless steel and ali-bronze.

Posted by David Colwill on 17/03/2019 15:20:05:

Hi,

I had to order a length of 16mm diameter EN24T from a supplier in Birmingham because it was out of stock at my usual suppliers. When I turned up the chap started rummaging around on a rack saying this might be it, he promptly went off to the office and came back with a small handheld gun which he pointed at said steel. A small LCD display clearly labeled it as EN24t and listed its chemical composition. I went away very impressed.

Sadly these things are £8000 plus. Given the way electronics is going, perhaps every home workshop will have one one day

Regards.

David.

AJW17/03/2019 23:23:34
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257 forum posts
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Amazing, how on earth would that work!

Research required.

 

Alan

 

Just had a quick look, very interesting.

  • X-ray Fluorescence (XRF) analyser: This is the most common method and the portability of the hand-held equipment allows Intertek to perform PMI on-site at our customers’ premises. The device scans the metal material and identifies its key elements. However, it cannot detect carbon and some lighter elements and is not suitable for identification of pure carbon steel materials.
  • Optical Emission Spectroscopy (OES): This method can detect almost all types of elements including carbon and lighter elements and carbon steel. Although not as portable as XRF analysers, the equipment can be transported to sites and used at high elevations with proper lifting arrangements.

 

Edited By AJW on 17/03/2019 23:28:37

thaiguzzi18/03/2019 04:10:45
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502 forum posts
104 photos
Posted by JasonB on 16/03/2019 16:51:27:

Parker Steel is the one I usually look at for colours

There are spark tests but don't know how closely you could tie it down by that method.

Thanx for that. Lost mine years ago.

Downloaded for future reference..

Phil Boyland18/03/2019 07:52:02
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43 forum posts
13 photos

If you can file a few bits off I can chemically analyse them in work and let you know compositions, should help you narrow down the possibilities.

Chris Evans 618/03/2019 08:43:21
1377 forum posts

Reading this post is another reason for putting an approximate location on your profile. There may be a local member willing to let you have whatever it is you need. I keep a lot of material in stock, all marked up when it arrives either by stamping of with a steel marking paint pen.

Barrie Lever18/03/2019 09:41:03
161 forum posts
35 photos
Posted by JasonB on 16/03/2019 16:51:27:

Parker Steel is the one I usually look at for colours

There are spark tests but don't know how closely you could tie it down by that method.

Jason

The spark test is very good if you know what the composition of the material should be or if the system allows the input of a material to match the sample to.

We use it a lot when we have purchased material without a C of C (read cheaply) and need to confirm it's type.

The test results below were for 7075 aluminium, so we are looking for a key characteristic in the material, in the case of 7075 this is a high presence of zinc, sure enough Zinc at 5.81%.

The sparked sample in the photo is not the 7075 but RSA 444 piston material, here the characteristic we were looking for was silicone at 30% and the spark test confirmed that. In this case the material stock had got jumbled up with other off cuts (no bonded store in my workshop !!).

Not many companies have these machines though, luckily I am on good terms with a former employer who has a very good spark test machine.

Regards

Barrie

 

7075 spark test results

Edited By Barrie Lever on 18/03/2019 09:41:53

Edited By Barrie Lever on 18/03/2019 09:42:23

Edited By Barrie Lever on 18/03/2019 09:45:29

AJW18/03/2019 12:14:50
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257 forum posts
117 photos

Thanks for all your generous offers and suggestions, I have updated my profile as well.

I found an outlet locally that specialises in offcuts of all sorts who have come up trumps, EJ Alloys, located in Westcliff and very helpful.

Alan

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