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Modern equivellent idea's please

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Dave Springate14/02/2019 12:39:54
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56 forum posts
121 photos

Hi looking to give the motor a good clean up, looks rough but runs smooth. The mounting rubbers have been topped up with what looks like silicone and will need changing but what I would like is some idea's as to what to substitute the on /off switch and drum switch with, something simple please I'm no electrician!

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3404614/02/2019 13:04:01
374 forum posts
2 photos

Do you want the reversing facility in your update ?

Dave Springate14/02/2019 14:13:51
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56 forum posts
121 photos
That would be nice yes.
3404614/02/2019 14:35:19
374 forum posts
2 photos

Perhaps just replace the metalclad switchgear with a DOL starter and rewire with rubber cable ?

Hopefully one of our sparky members will give you more qualified advice.

Clive Foster14/02/2019 15:51:01
1670 forum posts
46 photos

Bill has it.

DoL starter after the drum reverser switch so there is no possibility of things being inadvertently left live.

Motor looks small enough to run off a normal 13 amp socket. If you want a more permanent connection one of the heftier variety of switches used for cookers might be better.

Personally I like the more modern lever style disconnector / switch units for permanently wired things. Plastic body perhaps 1/3 rd size of your old metal box with a big red lever on the front so you can see if it's on or off from the other side of the shop. Padlock holes too so it can be locked off. The ones I buy are grey lid for single phase and yellow lid for three phase. Maybe £16 a pop.

Clive.

Edited By Clive Foster on 14/02/2019 15:51:43

Brian Sweeting14/02/2019 17:23:22
345 forum posts
1 photos

If you need new mounts for that motor try Remco......

**LINK**

Bazyle14/02/2019 18:00:49
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4489 forum posts
184 photos

If you keep the drum switch have a look at the contacts because it has probably been used as an on/off and pitted them. Not many people use a DOL switch for a hobby lathe. A simple NVR preferably with a big off button before the drum is enough but also put the drum in a less easy place to get to than the on/off so users don't use it for the wrong purpose and don't try to slam it straight into reverse while still turning.

Clive Foster14/02/2019 19:40:03
1670 forum posts
46 photos

As Bazyle says time was most folks didn't use a DoL starter box on hobby machines. Mostly due to the cost as they used to be expensive in real terms. As I remember things thirty or so years ago they were around £30 - £40 upwards.

However these days single phase DoL boxes can still be found for similar money, whilst boxed NVR switches seem to start at around £25. Naked NVR units can be found under £10 but by the time you've bought a box, cut a hole, drilled for cables, found some grommets and mounted it up .....

If you time it right on a certain auction site New Old Stock DoL boxes can be under £20. I'd not worry about having an overload unit if the price were right.

At that sort of price differential might as well go for the proper thing. Especially as some of the inexpensive NVR switch sets appear to be only single line switching. Found that out when I unbuttoned one that had become unreliable. Off a friends table saw so was just expecting it to be bunged up with dust.

Clive.

Edited By Clive Foster on 14/02/2019 19:40:54

Ian McVickers14/02/2019 20:26:18
107 forum posts
64 photos

Is that an old Bill switchfuse isolator? If so be careful with it as it will probably have asbestos flash pads.

Mike Poole14/02/2019 23:04:05
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1874 forum posts
46 photos

**LINK**

**LINK**

These items from Toolstation will start you off, the overload is available separately if you wish to fit one and should be selected to match the full load current of the motor. The starter will give you NVR protection (No Volt Release) which will stop the motor restarting by itself after a power failure. If required remote start and stop buttons can be wired to the starter which means you can have a small button box in a convenient position and loacate the starter out of the way. If reverse is required a changeover switch can be added. The single phase motor will need to stop before changing direction as it will carry on in the same direction if it has a centrifugal switch in the start winding.

Mike

Dave Springate15/02/2019 14:58:49
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56 forum posts
121 photos

Thanks for the replies, it gives me an idea as to what im looking for, got the resilient mounts off and I was right they are silicone based surpriseand completely knackered.

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Got the ends of the motor cleaned up though so I can now see what's needed

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Don't hold out much hope of finding new ones though, I've already tried 1 company Remco and they only do a six sided rubber the ones I need have 9 sides ! however they did offer to send me a pair of what they had at postage cost only, which I thought was very good of them.

SillyOldDuffer15/02/2019 17:01:47
4145 forum posts
833 photos

Unless you're keen to save money or retain original parts for nostalgic reasons, how about replacing the motor and switchgear with a VFD and 3-phase motor? Unlike horrible bumpy single phase motors, the 3-phase type are smooth enough not to need resilient mounting. Motor vibration can spoil the finish. In addition to being smoother, more efficient, and with better torque, 3-phase motors are also more reliable - no start and run windings, capacitors and centrifugal switches to go wrong.

Single-phase motors are a sad compromise on most machine tools - their only advantage is they run on ordinary domestic electricity, making powering them easy. Everything else about them is inferior. When Myford 10s first appeared it was intimidatingly expensive to convert single phase to 3-phase in a home workshop. Very few could afford to do it. That's changed - the electronics needed to create 3-phase from single phase is now commonplace and affordable. What you get is a better motor with speed control, reverse, soft-start and emergency stop built-in.

Going 3-phase makes most sense when an old motor absolutely has to be replaced. But if you can afford it, going 3-phase would be a worthwhile improvement now.

Dave

JC5415/02/2019 20:44:41
79 forum posts
1 photos

I agree with S.O.D. have just replaced single phase motor on my old drummond "M" with a 3 phase + VFD. A lot smoother and variable speed forward and reverse. JC

Tim Stevens16/02/2019 15:46:57
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1014 forum posts

A further VFD advantage which might be useful, is that some VFD kits come with an RPM gauge. It tells you the frequency of its output (motor rpm, sometimes), and doesn't account for any belt drive etc, but handy none-the-less.

Tim

Dave Springate16/02/2019 23:42:05
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56 forum posts
121 photos

Thanks for the input on this, I did think about going with a three phase motor but it seems to be quite expensive. The motor I have is serviceable so if I can use it I would like to use it. If it fails then I will change it out and possibly go with a 3 phase. This electrickery stuff is all chinese to me though I can just abut wire a plug, this is all a big learning curve.

David Kearns20/02/2019 08:21:15
9 forum posts

Dave, I have just got a viceroy lathe running that I ‘acquired’. Changing to three phase is just plug wiring. There are just a few more wires! I didn’t think it was expensive for the vfd.

Dave

Mike Poole20/02/2019 08:33:33
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1874 forum posts
46 photos

It is probably a very long shot but Crompton Parkinson was absorbed by BrookCrompton Motors. Their spares department may roll on the floor laughing or say certainly, how many would you like? You never know.

Mike

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