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Denford Viceroy 280 motor and inverter

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Andrew Evans14/02/2019 09:04:52
240 forum posts

Has anyone on here got experience with fitting a new 3 phase motor and inverter package to a Denford Viceroy 280VS - or similar - lathe?

Mine has been converted to a single phase motor years ago with the original control box on top of the lathe gutted and replaced with new wiring and switches.

Yesterday I was doing some threading, running the motor forward and back repeatedly with the half-nuts closed and it stopped running and the motor just made a buzzing noise. I took the front of the control box to check if I hadn't burned out contacts on the reversing switch and it looks like a bit of a bodge with 2 loose wires.

Anyway, I want to go the whole hog and get a new motor run off an inverter with a remote control unit mounted on top of the lathe where the current control box is. I reckon this will give me a nicer way to change speeds and do away with dodgy wiring.

Ideally I want something that is as 'plug and play' as possible. I believe its a 1.5hp / 1.1 Kw motor. Any recommendations on suppliers and how to proceed would be most welcome. Andy

john fletcher 114/02/2019 09:25:08
510 forum posts

Whilst I'm not familiar with your lathe, there was some one mentioning the very same thing yesterday. Have a look at latest posts. I have fitted Huanyang inverters for my friend which they bought via eBay for about £100, one has been going now for at least 4 years and non has any problems. If you go that route I made a sheet of the programming and which you could have a copy. I you need a copy please send me a PM with your email address. John.

Pete Rimmer14/02/2019 10:23:25
337 forum posts
11 photos

Since the VS has the variable speed belt and pulley setup which is a real power hog not to mention a source of vibration especially when they get old, I would give serious consideration to removing those pulleys, and the VS speed control, and fitting standard vee pulleys in it's place. You'll get smoother drive and more efficient power transmission to the spindle.

Clive Foster14/02/2019 10:41:51
1750 forum posts
56 photos

Newton Tesla have a good reputation for supplying plug and play equipment that just works.

DIY is rather less costly but for real savings you need to shop at the lower end of the market where its easy to slip up if you don't know exactly what you are doing. Mix and match from branded UK supplied goods might save 1/3 rd. John can clearly do much better.

The balance of saving money against the hassle of being your own technical integrator and support person can be hard to find. Even at 65 I'm still far too often penny wise £ foolish!

Do consider a 6 pole 950 rpm motor rather than the standard 4 pole 1440 rpm one if the cost difference is small. The extra low speed oomph means you will be able to do almost everything with the belts on a single mid range speed setting and probably never need (noisy) back gear. Easy to be far too impressed with top speed rather than what you actually use.

Especially if you have a vari-speed system and decide to revert to standard belts as Pete suggests above.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 14/02/2019 10:43:50

not done it yet14/02/2019 11:37:06
3031 forum posts
11 photos

Fitting the replacement motor should not present a problem.

Likely the same frame and foot or perhaps slightly smaller. Just unbolt the dead one and fit the new motor in place.

May need a different length belt. Beware of the shaft size or you may find you need to alter, or change, you current pulley.

I expect your present single phase motor has a simple fault - capacitor or start winding switch fault.

Andrew Evans14/02/2019 13:37:42
240 forum posts

Thanks all - I will take a look at the size of the motor as soon as I can. I would certainly like to reduce noise and vibration - that's the biggest drawback to what is otherwise a well made lathe.

Andrew Evans15/02/2019 22:33:11
240 forum posts

Pete - do you mean removing the variable pulley (which is attached to the motor) or the other fixed pulley or both? The belt is currently a 28 mm wide toothed belt - like a timing belt, not sure if that is need or I could use something else.

I took the motor and variable speed mechanism off today - it was a big job really. I have decided the wiring is too dodgy. I can't use the variable speed pulley anyway without the full VS mechanism. I now have to choose the best motor frame size to buy, work out how to fix a pulley onto the motor shaft and then what belt to use.

Niels Abildgaard17/02/2019 10:27:00
217 forum posts
65 photos

My former Boxford was driven with a Powertwist belt from a 60mm pulley on AC motorshaft unto the big 90 mm pulley on lathe spindle.

RockFord

A 2.5kW VFD made belt changing superfluous.

Noise was next to none from 60 to 1400 rpm.

**LINK**

Best motorsize was 6 pole 1.1kW

Hevanscc17/02/2019 10:42:01
88 forum posts
33 photos

Hi Andy

I've done it on my Viceroy (different model). Thread is here

Hywel

Andrew Evans17/02/2019 22:01:27
240 forum posts

Thanks Niels, Thanks Hywel.

Niels - did the Powertwist belt handle the torque from that 6 pole motor ok - can you remember if it was the A section belt (13 mm)? Were you happy with the choice of pulley sizes? It looks really smooth and quiet in your video.

I am planning to use the taper lock pulleys which seem to come in a good range of sizes. I have now removed all the existing variable speed related components, pulleys and wiring. So I have a motor mount plate (which has no mechanism for adjustment) which I can drill and tap for motor mounting holes if needed and a 19mm diameter keyed counter shaft.

If anyone is interested in the variable speed components let me know.

Andy

Edited By Andrew Evans on 17/02/2019 22:16:21

Niels Abildgaard18/02/2019 06:31:34
217 forum posts
65 photos

It was an A section Powertwist belt..

It could drill 20mm holes in mild steel from14mm.

Going from 12 to 20 was a marginal affair.

Belt tension was not high as I liked the slipping when I made something stupid.

I have stalled a 4 pole 0.75kW motor once.The white video one.

Powertwist A belts cannot go round smaller than 60mm pulleys.

Do You have a drawing of the drive system?

My Boxford back-gear system was only used for unscrewing chucks,faceplate etc.

When  starting with both backgear and direct drive engaged, belt slip was a benefit.

 

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 18/02/2019 06:40:30

Pete Rimmer18/02/2019 11:56:16
337 forum posts
11 photos
Posted by Andrew Evans on 15/02/2019 22:33:11:

Pete - do you mean removing the variable pulley (which is attached to the motor) or the other fixed pulley or both? The belt is currently a 28 mm wide toothed belt - like a timing belt, not sure if that is need or I could use something else.

I took the motor and variable speed mechanism off today - it was a big job really. I have decided the wiring is too dodgy. I can't use the variable speed pulley anyway without the full VS mechanism. I now have to choose the best motor frame size to buy, work out how to fix a pulley onto the motor shaft and then what belt to use.

Yes that's what I meant. I actually fitted one of those Denford setups to my milling machine and whilst it gives great variable speed it also suffers vibration. It's common as the belt and sheaves get older as I understand.

I'd find a nice used 1.5kw motor and vfd if it were mine. The mount plate is large enough to be re-drilled for various sized motors as I recall.

Andrew Evans08/04/2019 22:29:33
240 forum posts

Just to update and complete this thread and thank people for their help.

I sourced a top quality 3 phase, 6 pole 1.5 KW motor on the homeworkshop.org site and a 2nd hand Mitsubishi inverter from eBay (the same one sold as part of the Newton Tesla kit) and a new remote control unit also from an eBay seller. I used taper fit pulleys and 13mm powertwist belting. The result is a really quiet, smooth and powerful drive system - much nicer to use than before.

If anyone is interested in the various original expanding pulley bits and pieces give me a shout.

Edited By Andrew Evans on 08/04/2019 22:29:50

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