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Filling defects in slideways

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Karl Mansson12/02/2019 13:10:49
33 forum posts
17 photos

Hello!

I recently bough a used and misused Habegger DLZF. While some areas of the lathe are practically unworn (and I still have more cleaning to do Before I can measure the wear in the machine) other areas have pretty nasty defects from crash damage in the slide ways of the lathe bed. I suspect this lathe has been run primarily with a chuck, as this is where most of the damage is. I intend to run it mostly with the W20 collets that came with it and this places me with the saddle just over the damaged areas. I've run a fine stone over the affected areas to see if I can reduce any high spots and I Think i can manage that. Still, I would like to fill in any larger voids in order to prevent chips getting between the bed and slideways causing undue wear.

Does anyone have a good way of doing this?

I've tried to read up on the subject and came across JB weld (deemed to be too soft and prone to embedding chips and dirt) various spray welding techniques (a bit complicated for me) and a two Component putty called Moglice, made by the German Company Diamant. Moglice is advertised as a slide way casting compound with low friction coefficient and high wear resistance. It seems quite ideal for this apart from the fact that I don't intend to cast the entire length of the bed. I also can't find it for sale anywhere, at least not in small quantities. Something matching in colour would of course be preferrable but in this case I'll take function over form.

If anyone has used Moglice on their Machines: is a repair such as the one I'm discussing above feasible? Would it be able to stone the Moglice down to the level of the surrounding material after it's hardened?

Any and all other suggestions are welcome!

Best regards

Karl

Edited By Karl Mansson on 12/02/2019 13:12:14

HOWARDT12/02/2019 13:28:05
389 forum posts
14 photos

I used or rather called for Moglice to be used for many years on machine tool designs. Moglice was always used on the moving face when in full contact with a metal surface, being cast iron or hardened steel with suitable lubrication system. It is a softish material and tends to chip if you catch the edge. So in my opinion not suitable for this application. I think you need to go with something like JB Weld, but perhaps with a higher metal filler content. I am sure we used to something for this application but I can't remember what.

HOWARDT12/02/2019 13:34:55
389 forum posts
14 photos

Having just had a look at the Diamant site I see they do something called Plasticmetal, appears to fulfil your needs.

Michael Gilligan12/02/2019 13:37:23
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12775 forum posts
554 photos

Howard,

I bow to your wisdom ... but I am surprised by what you say.

I have never used the product, but have long held Moglice as a reference in case of need.

Any further 'mythbusting' you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

MichaelG.

.

http://www.moglice.com/handbook/handbook.pdf

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 12/02/2019 13:38:04

Karl Mansson12/02/2019 14:11:02
33 forum posts
17 photos

Thank you both!

Michael, in the handbook you linked to they describe a different material called STF for repairing scores in the ways. I can't find it from Diamant but the description resembles the one of Diamants "Plasticmetal". Seems to be more along the lines of what I need.

Regards

Karl

Chris Evans 612/02/2019 14:18:05
1376 forum posts

At this time of year the cure time of JB weld is long even with a bit of gentle heat after a day. Have you looked at Devcon ?

Michael Gilligan12/02/2019 15:13:40
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12775 forum posts
554 photos
Posted by Karl Mansson on 12/02/2019 14:11:02:

Michael, in the handbook you linked to they describe a different material called STF for repairing scores in the ways. I can't find it from Diamant but the description resembles the one of Diamants "Plasticmetal". Seems to be more along the lines of what I need.

.

Thanks for following that up, Karl

Please let us know if/when you try "Plasticmetal"

MichaelG.

Samsaranda12/02/2019 16:40:42
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616 forum posts
4 photos

You can sometimes see where the beds of Chinese lathes have been filled to hide inclusions, don’t know what the material used is but once levelled it is very difficult to spot and appears to perform satisfactorily.

Dave W

Karl Mansson12/02/2019 16:46:58
33 forum posts
17 photos

Chris, I had not looked at Devcon until now. Their WR-2 seems like a good fit. Still, I don't know how any of these hold up over time as I dont' have experience with them. It does appear to be cheaper than at least Moglice.

Photos of the crash damage. There seems to be pretty extensive pitting as well, I'm not sure how that got there. The castings on these machines are supposedly very good. You can see the perfect, scraped surfaces from underneath the headstock. Sorry about the orientation of the images, the forum doesn't seem to recognize orientation data from my iPhone.

img_7861.jpg

img_7862.jpg

img_7863.jpg

img_7864.jpg

Regards

Karl

Clive Foster12/02/2019 17:32:15
1639 forum posts
45 photos

Used one of the Devcon metal loaded fillers several times on cast iron some 25 years ago with eminently satisfactory results. Not a slideway unfortunately but a couple of the jobs were baseplates on which things were regularly slid around. As I recall matters there was no picking up or scuffing / scoring due to material being excessively soft.

I was advised that the trick was to avoid feathered edges and thin layers. Couple of jobs were drilling machine tables with the usual collection of "just started" holes. Following advice I drilled them deeper to leave a sharp cylindrical ring in the 1/16" to 2 mm deep range. Worked well once I'd got the knack of kneading the air out when filling. I know of folks who used JB Weld for similar jobs with less than permanent results. Couple or three years before first issue methinks. How much due to JB Weld being less suitable and how much due to simple clean and wipe in methods I know not.

I have seen suggestions that thin dowels, pins or similar in drilled holes be used as up-stands whnere the material is built up above the surface or run to an open edge. Presumably the idea is to reduce any leverage effects on the adhesive join. Peel being the achilles heel of all simple adhesive joins.

Clive.

Watford12/02/2019 19:29:13
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92 forum posts
8 photos

Which of the vast selection of 'Devcon' products are we talking about here?

Mike

Karl Mansson12/02/2019 19:34:51
33 forum posts
17 photos

I was thinking WR-2. Or maybe you were asking Clive which one he used 25 years ago?

Karl Mansson12/02/2019 19:34:51
33 forum posts
17 photos

Double post.

Edited By Karl Mansson on 12/02/2019 19:35:20

HOWARDT12/02/2019 20:04:42
389 forum posts
14 photos

Devcon, that was the name I was trying to remember.

Clive Foster12/02/2019 20:24:23
1639 forum posts
45 photos

Mike

As I recall it the one I used was a basic metal loaded filler. Either cast iron or steel in it.

Most likely the cheapest one that looked up for the job! Product range was a lot slimmer then too. Especially the ones Joe G. Public could actually get in small quantities.

The one thing I really remember was how incredibly stiff it was when trying to mix the hardener in before it started going off. I'm certain i wasted half of the first mix, two or three teaspoons worth sounds about right for the first batch. Down to about one afterwards. JB Weld is much much thinner in comparison.

Clive.

Neil Wyatt12/02/2019 20:29:47
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Moderator
15700 forum posts
659 photos
73 articles
Posted by Chris Evans 6 on 12/02/2019 14:18:05:

At this time of year the cure time of JB weld is long even with a bit of gentle heat after a day. Have you looked at Devcon ?

In general cure time is related to final hardness and strength in epoxies so I would advocate patience!

Neil

John McNamara12/02/2019 22:03:19
avatar
1285 forum posts
113 photos

Hi All

Having read up on various epoxy specifications for my mill project i noticed that some mentioned a minimum cure temperature, in some cases quite high, the cross-linking process does not properly take place at too lower a temperature, resulting in less than optimal mechanical strength.

Making your own mix of iron powder and epoxy is feasible. 0.5 kg of iron powder will go a very long way.
I experimented with 24 hour Araldite and Iron powder and it was a success. The link below is In Australia, I do not know if they export? (No connection apart from being a customer)
**LINK**

Regards
John

thaiguzzi13/02/2019 05:10:33
avatar
502 forum posts
104 photos

IMHO, stone the high spots, and leave the low spots. Call it oil retention areas....

Pete Rimmer13/02/2019 06:20:35
265 forum posts
2 photos

I would use Araldite 2013 and iron powder as a filler. It's not cheap but it's very good. Cures at room temperature (20deg nominal).

Edited By Pete Rimmer on 13/02/2019 06:22:01

Ron Laden13/02/2019 07:43:16
972 forum posts
145 photos

I have a friend who repaired a cylinder head with Alvin Lab Metal, its a single part air drying product. I dont know much about it but he was really impressed with it, he said it dried rock hard and withstands high temp, oils etc.

The one thing I do remember is him saying it is not cheap, quite expensive.

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