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AndyB22/01/2019 20:36:47
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167 forum posts
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Hi all,

It has been some time since I posted on the forum, even not getting wound up enough over holding an end mill in a 3 jaw lathe chuck in the Lathes for Beginners series, but the article in the latest magazine has me having to complain - sorry.

I am all in favour of a comparison of names for different countries so that we all understand what is being discussed but I would prefer that an American explains what is meant by the names and terms that he uses, rather than decide on the terms that we are supposed to use in the UK and give an American comparison.

To describe the English usage of Boxford as being South Bend in American is ludicrous; there are Boxford lathes in America, and why particularly these? He goes on to describe the English flat bed lathes as having an American equivalent of South Bend or Boxford - what is the point of using a term in the American description that Americans are not supposed to understand?

A dog clutch is definitely NOT a fastener with a short unthreaded length at the end, and I have never heard of dog point screws.

A sticky pin is only one form of a centre finder and I know that Americans have many.

Whoever here has a telescoping damper on their car? I have shock absorbers on mine.

Baize is not actually felt; you don't see stetsons made of baize.

The Permanent Way is the track, not somebody's right of way.

Something described as High Street is not what I would think of as overly fancy, snob goods.

I could go on through most of the list but I will finish by asking the question; who in the UK ever uses Mole Wrenches? I have only ever heard them called Mole Grips.

As I said, I am for sensible comparisons but I suppose that Mr Widin means well but I feel this to be patronising.

Andy

Nicholas Wheeler 122/01/2019 22:41:43
275 forum posts
16 photos

I thought that some of the US/UK definitions were reversed, and that the article was just padding. Not worth getting annoyed about.

Telescopic dampers are just one common type of shock absorber - lever arm are another, like on the front of an MGB

David George 122/01/2019 22:53:16
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918 forum posts
307 photos

M5 x 5mm Dog Point Set / Grub Screws (DIN 915) - A2 Stainless Steel

David

Michael Gilligan22/01/2019 23:13:30
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14025 forum posts
609 photos
Posted by AndyB on 22/01/2019 20:36:47:
... I have never heard of dog point

.

For info. ... Allen was advertising them in 1913 **LINK**

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Allen_Mfg_Co_Inc_1913_advert_in_Auto_Trade_Dir.png#mw-jump-to-license

MichaelG.

Mark Rand22/01/2019 23:48:53
761 forum posts

I would add that I've always referred to Mole Wrenches rather than Mole Grips. I suppose a more British form might be Mole Spanners and a more pedantic form might be Mole Pliers. Still better than the colonial rubbish though cheeky.

As for Engish flat bead lathes having an eqivalent in South Bend, Wouldn't it be the Atlas instead?

Note:- The flat bed Waldrich Siegen lathe at work turned 80 tonne rotors...

Bah humbug laugh

Bazyle22/01/2019 23:51:17
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4729 forum posts
186 photos

Telescopic dampers are just one common type of shock absorber - lever arm are another, like on the front of an MGB

And at the back!


And we complain about the Chinglish instruction leaflets that should have been put past a proper English speaker. Ugh. I have enough of a problem at work with the number of people who have learned their 'English' from American films. This week's grump is the way they don't know the difference between 'bring' and 'take'.

J BENNETT 122/01/2019 23:51:50
36 forum posts

Lets be clear telescopic dampers or any other type of damper for that matter are not shock absorbers. The components on motor vehicles that absorb shock are springs, which may be coil springs, leaf springs, torsion bars, torsion tubes et al. The damper is a separate component its purpose is to control the oscillation of the spring. Dampers also come in several forms telescopic, lever arm and even friction. Springs and dampers are often combined such as in the Macpherson strut which is almost ubiquitous on the front suspension of mass produced cars. Coil over damper is also very common on the rear suspesion of motorcycles. However, in all cases it is the spring that absorbs the shock and the damper which controls the oscillation of the spring.

For any one interested I suggest you look at any text book on vehicle suspension design. One that I can recommend, although rather old is "Handling and Roadholding - Car Suspension at Work" by "Jeffrey Daniels".

For anyone requiring a more practical demonstration I suggest you try removing the springs from your vehicle and see how well the "shock absorbers" (dampers) perform at absorbing the shock!

This is a case where I firmly believe it is not just a matter of a difference in terminology. Vehicle designers in countries across the world all use dampers and springs correctly.

Bandersnatch23/01/2019 01:09:59
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1249 forum posts
40 photos
Posted by Bazyle on 22/01/2019 23:51:17:

And we complain about the Chinglish instruction leaflets that should have been put past a proper English speaker. Ugh. I have enough of a problem at work with the number of people who have learned their 'English' from American films. This week's grump is the way they don't know the difference between 'bring' and 'take'.


There are plenty of UK members on this very forum who no longer know the correct usage of "alternative" and "alternate". Even worse here in Canada of course - where the correct usage is still the English one. (Come to that even my copy of Webster's defines it as the English version .... although my Webster's is a bit long in the tooth).

As for Chinglish, I have a nephew who lives in China teaching English. I asked him whether he couldn't make some spare time money reviewing/correcting instruction leaflets and manuals. He said he'd already checked it out and the return was literally pocket change and not worth the effort.

Chris Trice23/01/2019 03:22:09
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1362 forum posts
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Posted by Bandersnatch on 23/01/2019 01:09:59:
As for Chinglish, I have a nephew who lives in China teaching English. I asked him whether he couldn't make some spare time money reviewing/correcting instruction leaflets and manuals. He said he'd already checked it out and the return was literally pocket change and not worth the effort.

No expense spent. How many Chinese engineering products do we encounter spoilt by saving just a little too much money which could be better for a minimal extra expenditure? I bought a tiny CCTV camera from China recently. The instructions are completely unintelligible rendering it completely useless. Fortunately, I found proper instructions that made sense online courtesy of a Canadian author.

Neil Wyatt23/01/2019 08:57:48
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75 articles

One for 'Mole Wrench' here.

I felt the article was clearly from a US perspective, but a few oddities. A fillister has a slightly domed top and a cheese head has a flat top, for example.

N.

Neil Wyatt23/01/2019 09:02:16
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Posted by Chris Trice on 23/01/2019 03:22:09:
Posted by Bandersnatch on 23/01/2019 01:09:59:
As for Chinglish, I have a nephew who lives in China teaching English. I asked him whether he couldn't make some spare time money reviewing/correcting instruction leaflets and manuals. He said he'd already checked it out and the return was literally pocket change and not worth the effort.

No expense spent. How many Chinese engineering products do we encounter spoilt by saving just a little too much money which could be better for a minimal extra expenditure? I bought a tiny CCTV camera from China recently. The instructions are completely unintelligible rendering it completely useless. Fortunately, I found proper instructions that made sense online courtesy of a Canadian author.

As a teenager making plastic kits, I thought such might be a way to make a living.

Perhaps fortunately, I never followed it up.

The most hilarious instructions I ever read were in pure English, for a 'Void Bush Remover', but you had to have a particularly dirty mind to get the humour.

Neil

"I know exactly what you are saying to yourself, you wicked lot. You’re the sort of people that get me a bad name!" - Max Miller (Thanks to Demonperformer for reminding me of that one)

JasonB23/01/2019 09:16:24
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Those of us who make models at a fair rate don't have time for Mole Wrench or Mole grips, it's faster to just say "Moles" devil

He also missed the obvious one under the "railroad terms" heading

Michael Gilligan23/01/2019 09:29:25
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14025 forum posts
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Posted by JasonB on 23/01/2019 09:16:24:

... it's faster to just say "Moles" devil

.

But risks confusion with small black creatures rather good at digging tunnels angel

Mick B123/01/2019 09:35:53
1191 forum posts
66 photos

The whole thing has just opened the floodgates to a load of pedantic show-offery.

Many of the expressions we use in common parlance are imprecise, and may in some cases indicate general engineering practices that may vary between nations.

I too thought the original article overblown and inaccurate, but didn't consider it worth writing about until reading this thread.

SillyOldDuffer23/01/2019 10:24:22
4723 forum posts
1010 photos

Posted by AndyB on 22/01/2019 20:36:47:

...

Something described as High Street is not what I would think of as overly fancy, snob goods.

...

 

Be interesting to know where some of the UK/US definitions came from. I suspect gremlins. However some of the strange definitions might be correct.

A feature of 'English' is that it's an extraordinarily broad church. Apart from the obvious differences between American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and South African English, most Englanders can spot a grockle a mile off. The Welsh, Scots, and Irish have distinctive versions of the language, as do specialists, and words and idioms are freely swapped between communities and adapted over time. Probably the purest form of British English in the world today is that taught in India.

It's possible that 'High Street' might have been slang for snob goods at one time somewhere in the world. But not in my part of Zummerzet!

By some mysterious process slang either disappears or becomes part of the language. The expression 'High Street, China' was once RAF slang for anywhere remote; now the phrase is mostly forgotten, along with 'higher Malthusianism' and 'high-splice toby'. On the other hand, 'highfalutin', 'high flier', 'highbrow' and 'hike' all caught on as proper English.

Arguing a word or phrase isn't British English is a pedant's minefield. For example, 'Hike' came to us from America. It would be cultural vandalism except they got it from us first. It's one of many British words that fell out of favour in the UK during the 19th century only to return as colonial slang after WW1. As it's useful the word is respectable again.

'Snob' is another example. Originally, it meant a cobbler, or black-leg scab. Our meaning comes from Cambridge University slang, where it meant 'townsmen'. Townsmen, having ideas above their station, imitated University taste and intellect but - being in trade - were socially inferior. Oiks who are up themselves...

Dave

 

 

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 23/01/2019 10:24:45

Michael Gilligan23/01/2019 10:45:05
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14025 forum posts
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Posted by Neil Wyatt on 23/01/2019 08:57:48:

One for 'Mole Wrench' here.

.

... and one for Wrench from Thomas Robb Coughtrie: **LINK**

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19720112&CC=GB&NR=1260311A&KC=A

Although, curiously, I think Mole marketed Grips

Happy Daze

MichaelG.

.

Correction: Mole marketed self-grip wrenches:

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/M._Mole_and_Son

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/01/2019 10:50:06

ega23/01/2019 11:11:40
1267 forum posts
108 photos

I seem to remember that there was an issue about letters from Newport being postmarked "The home of the Mole wrench".

Circlip23/01/2019 12:01:15
978 forum posts

Before we start a discussion about the difference between "Americanisms",( as we well know, the American language is based on the dictionary explanations of the version of book taken over the pond by the Pilgrim fathers ) Many whose native language is "English" don't have the ability, not only to construct understandable sentences but also correct spulling, DESPITE spline chunk and the red underline at composition stages.

Let he who is without cyn cost the first brick.

Regards Ian.

Howard Lewis23/01/2019 12:11:56
2341 forum posts
2 photos

As an incorrect quotation, is this "The sort of English up with which we should not have to put"?

Forgot the question mark! (Can't even misquote properly!)

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 23/01/2019 12:12:39

Edited By Howard Lewis on 23/01/2019 12:13:24

Ian S C23/01/2019 12:31:28
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7447 forum posts
230 photos

I presume that you mean by Mole Wrench, you mean Vice Grips, I think that's what most Kiwis would call them.

Ian S C

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