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New collets. Bankrupt now.

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Mark Gould 117/01/2019 13:10:19
102 forum posts
60 photos

93f09109-5b96-475a-b7b3-9a2645229f09.jpeg

Gents,

After trying the Chinese cheap nasty collets I have ordered a set of Rego-Fix ER25 collets. Beans on toast for a month at least. In order to make them last for as long as possible I would like to use the c correct torque. I didn’t even know there was a torque spec bit there you go.

I was looking at this spanner thingy. Will it work? Seems to my amateur newbie mind to measure torque aroind the wrond axis. I need it measured around the green axis but coupled with a conventional torque wrench it would measure around the red axis wouldn’t it?

Will this work?

Thanks, Mark

Phil P17/01/2019 13:15:42
478 forum posts
128 photos

It would depend on the position of the lever you use with it.

Torque is force x radius, so if the lever were at 90° to the C spanner it wont be far off.

Phil

JasonB17/01/2019 13:18:10
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Moderator
15538 forum posts
1594 photos
1 articles

You can get similar fittings but the sq drive socket is on the end and then use a matching wrench which has the sq drive poking straight out the end. may be beans for a while longer though looking at this

John Haine17/01/2019 13:19:44
2548 forum posts
132 photos

Mark, two things. One, you would have to allow for the additional moment arm because of the extra offset, and make sure you always inserted the square ended wrench in the same relative orientation.

Second, somewhere on here, I think it was Joseph Noci reported that tightening the collet nut with a single wrench can make the collet run slightly out of true, what you really need is a way to provide a balanced couple. I've provided myself with a socket that fits an ER16 collet so I can do this, but I'm not sure if sockets are available to fit the funny notched nut arrangment you show.

Mark Gould 117/01/2019 13:24:31
102 forum posts
60 photos

Phil, sounds logical. Thanks, that may be the way to do it then.

Jason, I had seen those but was suprised at the price.

John, I am interested in your socket. Do you have a pic? Is it a normal half inch socket modified to fit an ER style nut?

Swarf, Mostly!17/01/2019 14:14:02
489 forum posts
41 photos

Hi there, Mark,

In my applied mathematics course (many, many years ago!! ) we were taught that 'a couple has the same moment about any point in its plane'.

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

Martin Connelly17/01/2019 14:20:54
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845 forum posts
95 photos

People like Norbar tell you the formula to use for their torque wrenches (it varies from tool to tool) when using an offset tool like this. It is necessary because you can buy spigot connections for welding your own fitting onto. I have had flat ring wrenches heated and bent then cut off and welded onto spigot connectors and set using a torque meter so that they can be used around obstacles. A suitable torque meter and connection is the easiest way to set a torque with an extended tool.

Is there a different torque for ball bearing nuts compared to plain nuts?

Martin C

Mark Gould 117/01/2019 15:01:58
102 forum posts
60 photos

You see this is why I hang around here

Excellent info and suggestions, many thanks. I will go the cheapest route first and see how I get along. Dad has a torque wrench so this little attachment will be a good place to start.

Martin, I have seen different torque values for ball bearing nuts, yes. My nuts are plain

John Haine17/01/2019 16:03:21
2548 forum posts
132 photos

Mark, ER nuts seem to come in two styles. Mine are mainly hex and that's what I have on the collet spindle that I've retrofitted to my Unimat. I needed a 25mm socket to fit an ER16 nut, but also a deep socket to clear the work or tool mounted in the collet. 25mm a/f deep sockets are like hen's teeth, but I found one that is designed for an impact driver. It comes in black finish rather than polished.

I also heave a mini collet nut that is cylindrical with slots to engage a wrench - I haven't seen a socket as such for this but bought a little tool with the nut from Arc - I made the collet holder, it's for my Acute sharpener to hold end mills.

Martin Connelly17/01/2019 19:14:00
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845 forum posts
95 photos

Looking at the Norbar site they now have an app for calculating the result of extending the torque wrench.

Norbar apps page

Martin C

Michael Gilligan17/01/2019 19:23:57
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13298 forum posts
578 photos

Excellent ... Thanks Martin

MichaelG

Barrie Lever17/01/2019 19:28:51
254 forum posts
38 photos
Posted by Mark Gould 1 on 17/01/2019 13:10:19:

93f09109-5b96-475a-b7b3-9a2645229f09.jpeg

Gents,

After trying the Chinese cheap nasty collets I have ordered a set of Rego-Fix ER25 collets. Beans on toast for a month at least. In order to make them last for as long as possible I would like to use the c correct torque. I didn’t even know there was a torque spec bit there you go.

I was looking at this spanner thingy. Will it work? Seems to my amateur newbie mind to measure torque aroind the wrond axis. I need it measured around the green axis but coupled with a conventional torque wrench it would measure around the red axis wouldn’t it?

Will this work?

Thanks, Mark

Mark

Where did you get the Rego-Fix collets from?

I get Fahrion ER collets from DJ workholding in Oxford.

Regards

Barrie

Mark Gould 117/01/2019 20:22:20
102 forum posts
60 photos

Barrie,

I got them from Dixi Polytool. Their website is **LINK**

I am in the Netherlands but they probably have a UK shop too.

Mark

Mark Gould 117/01/2019 20:23:28
102 forum posts
60 photos
Posted by Martin Connelly on 17/01/2019 19:14:00:

Looking at the Norbar site they now have an app for calculating the result of extending the torque wrench.

Norbar apps page

Martin C

Thanks Martin!

Neil Wyatt17/01/2019 21:14:08
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Moderator
16108 forum posts
675 photos
73 articles

Formula can't be that hard? As torque=force x distance, surely it's just:

actual torque = indicated torque * (distance from handle to pivot point)/(distance from handle to drive square)

Nick Hughes17/01/2019 21:55:13
avatar
196 forum posts
129 photos

annotation 2019-01-17 214940.jpg

Mark Gould 118/01/2019 18:03:25
102 forum posts
60 photos

Nick,

The second drawing is the clue here as Phil P said in the second posting. Thanks, that's a handy diagram to have.

Mark

Neil Lickfold18/01/2019 18:55:57
551 forum posts
102 photos

When I do up the ER series bigger than ER16, I do it up with a tap with my copper block on the end of the spanner. Then I put the spanner on 180 deg and do it again. Sounds silly I know, but I have found this to create the most consistent results. Another company that make really good ER series collets, is the Big company from Japan. But their collets are over twice the price of the Regofix ones. I do find that the C spanner does not do the initial tighten to be as good as the mutli tooth ER spanner. However, when tapped from each side 180 apart, they seem to be the same result. I also found that some ER nuts are alot better than others for getting a consistent result. The Hex nut on my ER20 spindle, seems to be very good, even if only tightened from one side. A bad nut can cause a runout of 0.02mm easily , when a good one will result in a runout better than 0.006mm easily with the same collet and test piece or cutter. The part I don't fully understand ,is that the bad collet nut will often have the same run out at the nut face, but measuring the bottom of the pin, so like 30mm away, is where the differences are really noticed. The pin can be tapped to run true, but my thinking is, if it can be tapped true, it can chatter out of true as well. I have not found a Bad Regofix nut yet. The cheaper copies have definitely been the ones I have seen issues with, especially the bearing nuts.

Neil

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