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lathe to cut 26tpi

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David Standing 115/01/2019 21:50:53
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Posted by Michael Gilligan on 15/01/2019 20:20:07:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 15/01/2019 14:14:07:

... you might buy a new Boxford.

.

My apologies for drifting off-topic, but I continue to find this assertion [from Dave's linked page] 'interesting'

[quote]

The only manual lathe you can buy which is still truly Made in Britain

[/quote]

.

dont know MichaelG.

Go on Michael, I'll bite wink

Michael Gilligan15/01/2019 22:02:37
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Posted by David Standing 1 on 15/01/2019 21:50:53:

Go on Michael, I'll bite wink

.

From the Myford home-page https://www.myford.co.uk

[quote]

New high speed Super 7 Connoiseur lathes are made here, on site, in the UK

[/quote]

.

Can both be right ?

... or are we in the realm of 'weasel' definitions ?

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 15/01/2019 22:03:58

JasonB16/01/2019 06:57:31
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Maybe Boxford don't consider a Myford to be a proper lathe eg hobby not industrial.

not done it yet16/01/2019 07:44:37
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Maybe it has something to do with:

Where castings are poured, where they are machined, where the machined parts are assembled or simply where new stickers were carefully placed on the otherwise finished product?

In other words, does ‘manufactured’ mean ‘made’, or not?

David Standing 116/01/2019 09:25:43
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Michael

Ah, I'm with you now, thank you. I thought for a moment you might have meant Boxford weren't British made, but I don't like to assume.

And yes of course, I should have thought of Myford's advertising blurb.

As NDIY says, there can be a lot of difference between 'made' and 'assembled', with some creative use of the word 'made'!

Michael Gilligan16/01/2019 10:09:22
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Posted by David Standing 1 on 16/01/2019 09:25:43:

... there can be a lot of difference between 'made' and 'assembled', with some creative use of the word 'made'!

.

... and that is essentially what I find 'interesting'

[ neither company admits 'assembled' ]

Comparing the two statements, it is difficult to see how both of them can be true.

.

MichaelG.

Michael Gilligan16/01/2019 10:15:48
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Posted by not done it yet on 16/01/2019 07:44:37:

In other words, does ‘manufactured’ mean ‘made’, or not?

.

As per my reply to David ... both companies use the word 'made'

Although BoxFord adds emphasis with '... truly Made in Britain'

MichaelG.

ega16/01/2019 11:03:36
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My expensive walking boots claim to be "Engineered in Italy"; not readily visible on the back of the label it says "Assembled in Romania".

Fortunately, my feet can't read!

Michael Gilligan16/01/2019 11:45:09
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Posted by ega on 16/01/2019 11:03:36:

My expensive walking boots claim to be "Engineered in Italy"; not readily visible on the back of the label it says "Assembled in Romania".

Fortunately, my feet can't read!

.

"Engineered" has long been a 'weasel word' in the marketing context.

But I think we have specific legislation to cover the use/misuse of "made"

... If I can find it, I will post something.

MichaelG.

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Edit: This is the best I have found so far:

https://www.twobirds.com/en/news/articles/2014/global/european-parliament-votes-for-compulsory-made-in-labels

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/01/2019 12:10:55

Brian G16/01/2019 12:26:06
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In general terms the country of origin is the country in which the last substantial transformation took place. This is often a change of tariff classification (for example from materials to components), or else the country in which most value was added. This second one means that at a product may be made in Britain even if 75% of its value was from components made overseas as long as no other single country made a greater proportion of its value than the 25% added in Britain.

I remember an export shipment running into trouble because greenhouses were sent on two trucks, and instead of loading the imported glass with the British made frames (which would have made the entire product British as the frames accounted for over half the value) the glass was sent separately and mistakenly declared as British.

BTW, when it comes to British made manual lathes, what about Cowells? **LINK**

Brian

Neil Wyatt16/01/2019 12:58:08
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Posted by not done it yet on 16/01/2019 07:44:37:

Maybe it has something to do with:

Where castings are poured, where they are machined, where the machined parts are assembled or simply where new stickers were carefully placed on the otherwise finished product?

In other words, does ‘manufactured’ mean ‘made’, or not?

'Country of manufacture' has a legal definition as the country where the last substantive manufacturing process was carried out (attaching a sticker probably would not count, assembling individual parts probably would). So both Myford and Boxford are legally made in the UK. I very much doubt that any Boxford lathe solely contains parts made in the UK, for example, where do the fixings and electronic components come from?

Michael Gilligan16/01/2019 13:07:41
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Posted by Brian G on 16/01/2019 12:26:06:

In general terms the country of origin is the country in which the last substantial transformation took place.

[ ... ]

BTW, when it comes to British made manual lathes, what about Cowells? **LINK**

.

Quite so, Brian ... I am aware of the general terms regarding COO

... so I suppose what I find 'interesting' is BoxFord's claim to have

"The only manual lathe you can buy ... "

Jason's back-handed remark notwithstanding: I am interested to know how it comes that neither Myford nor Cowells has successfully challenged this statement.

MichaelG.

.

[quote]

The only manual lathe you can buy which is still truly Made in Britain

[/quote]

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/01/2019 13:09:29

David Standing 116/01/2019 13:12:39
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Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/01/2019 10:09:22:
Posted by David Standing 1 on 16/01/2019 09:25:43:

... there can be a lot of difference between 'made' and 'assembled', with some creative use of the word 'made'!

.

... and that is essentially what I find 'interesting'

[ neither company admits 'assembled' ]

Comparing the two statements, it is difficult to see how both of them can be true.

.

MichaelG.

Michael

And now we apparently have three companies claiming the same wink

I might pop out to the workshop later and ask for an official statement from my Boxford and two Myfords teeth 2

David Standing 116/01/2019 13:13:45
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As to challenging each others' assertions, I guess none of them have the stomach to get embroiled in a legal battle, with the attendant costs.

JasonB16/01/2019 13:18:43
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Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/01/2019 13:07:41:

.......................I am interested to know how it comes that neither Myford nor Cowells has successfully challenged this statement.

 

May just be that it would cost either of the smaller companies too much to challenge Boxford. Also they are generally selling into two different markets so not worth it for probably less than one sale a year that could be lost or gained.

Probably better for Myford and Cowells to keep a low profile as if it went to court there may be questions asked about why they can sell with unprotected leadscrews when Boxford and far eastern imports have to comply and cover them up. It would certainly stop them being able to sell into Boxfords market.

Edited By JasonB on 16/01/2019 13:22:29

David Standing 116/01/2019 13:27:07
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Back on track, my geared head Boxford 330 will happily cut 26 tpi with just one change wheel substitution in the gear train.

I know I champion these at regular intervals, but the X10 series Boxfords (330, 280, 10.20, 11.30 etc) are very capable lathes, and can be bought in good condition secondhand for little money, if you keep your eyes open - certainly for a fraction of the new cost.

David Standing 116/01/2019 13:31:30
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45 photos
Posted by JasonB on 16/01/2019 13:18:43:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/01/2019 13:07:41:

.......................I am interested to know how it comes that neither Myford nor Cowells has successfully challenged this statement.

May just be that it would cost either of the smaller companies too much to challenge Boxford. Also they are generally selling into two different markets so not worth it for probably less than one sale a year that could be lost or gained.

Probably better for Myford and Cowells to keep a low profile as if it went to court there may be questions asked about why they can sell with unprotected leadscrews when Boxford and far eastern imports have to comply and cover them up. It would certainly stop them being able to sell into Boxfords market.

Edited By JasonB on 16/01/2019 13:22:29

Jason

You are probably aware that for many years Boxford have primarily focused on the education market, which is why safety compliance is very high on their list of priorities.

As a sad by product of this, it is why I managed to get my virtually unused 330 for peanuts - it came out of an education establishment that, like so many others, was closing its engineering department. My 330 had sat in the corner, unloved, until bought back by the service technician that had installed it a number of years earlier.

ega16/01/2019 13:47:28
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Michael Gilligan:

Thanks for the interesting Bird & Bird link with its reference to the footwear industry.

My light-hearted from-memory comment requires a small correction: the back of the boot label actually says "Made in Romania" (my italics). I think that in today's conditions what would weigh with me is a reliable indication that a reputable organization had verified the quality of the entire product wherever its components were made or assembled.

An example might be the Brompton folding bicycle whose frame is guaranteed for life. At one time production was outsourced to the Far East but was later brought back to the UK because of quality problems. However, I understand that the titanium front and rear forks of the lighter weight models are made abroad satisfactorily.

JasonB16/01/2019 13:48:53
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Yes David that was the two markets I was talking about, remember a new Boxford being set up at school though I mostly used the Harrisons.

It would Cost Myford more to bring their lathe upto spec for that market and go round selling them than it would be worth. Also looking at things like the projects section on Boxfords site very little is lathe orientated more CnC, 3D etc so I doubt lathe sales are now a big part of their market. I also wonder how many schools budgets allow them to buy British over imported.

Just to back up Neil's comment about electrical components its interesting to see the Vertex logo on the machine lamp of the blue connoisseur

Bazyle16/01/2019 14:37:22
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Given that 26 tpi, as per the op's need, is fairly common worldwide even in metric countries, it is a pretty poor show that it is not one of the standard threads the lathe designer/specifier listed as a mandatory feature. It shows how the manufacturers and procurement departments are totally divorced from any real life use of their product.

If there are lathes being built in this country I wonder if any of the staff are model engineers, member of ME clubs, subscribers, and readers of this forum. Having raised the question of the build location wouldn't it be nice if someone came on here this evening to say he has spent the day grinding lathe beds in the UK..
Apart from JS coming on here occasionally to say he made the collet blocks for Arc we never hear from UK manufacturers of anything. I haven't been able to report such myself for about 20 years and not even sourced UK built product for 15.

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