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Zyto Owners Only. Other Riff Raff can keep out :P

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Paul Kennedy13/01/2019 11:32:34
45 forum posts
122 photos

OK Guys, Sorry for the title. Just a little humor. SO I'm looking for a Zyto Owner that has an intact Counter-shaft. If i cant find a second hand counter-shaft I intend on making one ! I would prefer to replicate the original but before I do I would like some feedback ! Is it any good for a start ? I don't wish to copy a poor design. Have you or has yours been modded in any way to improve it for instance ? I have a ML7 and its counter-shaft is sorta integral to the lathe so I'm open to other ideas from other manufacturers as well but think the easiest route is to copy the original. That being said I would need some sizes. A sketch perhaps with some dimensions. If your feeling particularly pedantic a parts drawing with accurate dimensions but even approximations will be useful so i can 'sorta' keep it to similar dimensions as the original. I'm intending on using steel plate and flat bar welded together with some round bar welded in to hold the bushes/bearings and then through hole bore on the ML7 to ensure accurate alignment. The frame will be entirely welded so .. Not the best but I don't have the capability to cast iron. :/ The best picture i have to work from so far is below.

47659e81a4d5ee163034586b26d5ddbb.jpg

vintage-model-maker-engineer-clockmakers-lathe-maker-tyzack-and-sons.jpg

img16.jpg

table countershaft.jpg

Edited By Paul Kennedy on 13/01/2019 11:35:55

Edited By Paul Kennedy on 13/01/2019 11:38:19

Edited By Paul Kennedy on 13/01/2019 11:43:30

Adam McCullough14/01/2019 00:08:36
10 forum posts

I've got a *much* older Zyto countershaft - it's basically just two tall pillow block type bearings, with no motor mount. I think it was intended to run from line shafting above via fast and loose pulleys.

I will be constructing a new countershaft for my zyto at some point, so I'm interested to see what you turn up.

Paul Kennedy14/01/2019 18:31:08
45 forum posts
122 photos

Adam,

I've someone on the job looking for one for me and Id rather the original, however there is a number of problems, the worst is i'm an impatient ******at times so much so that my knick knacks itch and i don't have crabs, least i don't think i do SO That being said, i'm very keen to get cracking and build one. I've been thinking it out in my head and made one or two sketches of the original bench mounted design. What i'm planning is welding up steel plate, angle iron, flat bar and round bar to make the frame and base. And then machine it. Easier said than done but it shouldn't be too difficult given the right tools. I think I have most of the main tooling i require but there's always something you miss.Im really lacking actual workspace and might have to wait untill the spring summer or at least untill i get some dry weather and try tackling it outside in the carpark or the green. No welding bench either so it will have to be a plate of steel on a B&D Workmate Workbench ! I'm also looking for better photos for a start so i can import them into autocad and then scale them correctly with a known size so i can generate reasonably accurate plans compared to the original bench countershaft. So i'm playing myself at this point but thinking and planning don't cost me any cash so.

If my friend fails in his quest then I hope to be prepared to just make one for myself but id need to reach into my pocket to buy the materials, and misc other stuff to do the job. I know i don't have a through hole boring bar for instance so there are things i'm still missing that i will need to make the thing. I'm also thinking about putting bearings on the spindle rather than bushes or maybe it just ran in the bare cast iron back then. Bushes or bearing. Hmm not sure on that one yet. Olite bushings is more authentic if still not strictly speaking original but the whole frame is fabricated and not cast so is there any point in even trying to be authentic with the frame :/ My first hurdle is to get some decent photos that both show the details and are reasonabaly square on so i can scale relatively accurately. I've put out some feelers out to a guy that I think has the lathe I displayed earlier.The pulleys will be another problem but i will see what i can do about that nearer the time if i go ahead with it. It seems everything you do at home suffers from the chicken/ egg problem. you need the tool to make the tool to make the bracket used on the thigy me jig to clamp the whatsnot so you can, i dont know, make the part. Or you can spend a wad of cash on stuff you will likely only use a half dozen times.

Also I dont want to start this only in a month or two have my mate say hes found it and for me to have wasted the little spare cash on stuff to make the countershaft when i could have bought one if id just been a bit patient !

Another route is to bolt two plumbers blocks to some 2x4 and jury rig something out of that but thats not really me although if i was in the desert or at sea i would because id have to. Ive seen a photo off your older countershaft and have also considered an intermediate solution. Ive seen a photo of a countershaft whose frame was made from unistrut as well which was both an inspired solution but ********* rough as a badger's ********* ><

For anywone reading this i have no experiance with badgers *********nor any ********* in any shape or form. And in the interests of being Politically Correct thats not to say anyone who happens to be interested in the aforemention is in any way mental.

Also no badgers were harmed during the writing of this posting

I kinda want the original but also want to make it so i can say 'I made this !' :D

Will keep you posted !

Im of for a cuppa tea.

Paul

Edited By Paul Kennedy on 14/01/2019 18:35:43

The opposite side if interested.

081f3ccebe519a2a96d6c72577e7363e.jpg

Edited By Paul Kennedy on 14/01/2019 18:48:16

Edited By JasonB on 14/01/2019 19:42:44

Neil Wyatt14/01/2019 19:36:15
avatar
Moderator
17970 forum posts
709 photos
77 articles
Posted by Paul Kennedy on 14/01/2019 18:31:08:

Adam,

I've someone on the job looking for one for me and Id rather the original, however there is a number of problems, the worst is i'm an impatient arse at times so much so that my knick knacks itch and i don't have crabs, least i don't think i do SO That being said, i'm very keen to get cracking and build one. I've been thinking it out in my head and made one or two sketches of the original bench mounted design. What i'm planning is welding up steel plate, angle iron, flat bar and round bar to make the frame and base. And then machine it. Easier said than done but it shouldn't be too difficult given the right tools. I think I have most of the main tooling i require but there's always something you miss.Im really lacking actual workspace and might have to wait untill the spring summer or at least untill i get some dry weather and try tackling it outside in the carpark or the green. No welding bench either so it will have to be a plate of steel on a B&D Workmate Workbench ! I'm also looking for better photos for a start so i can import them into autocad and then scale them correctly with a known size so i can generate reasonably accurate plans compared to the original bench countershaft. So i'm playing myself at this point but thinking and planning don't cost me any cash so.

If my friend fails in his quest then I hope to be prepared to just make one for myself but id need to reach into my pocket to buy the materials, and misc other stuff to do the job. I know i don't have a through hole boring bar for instance so there are things i'm still missing that i will need to make the thing. I'm also thinking about putting bearings on the spindle rather than bushes or maybe it just ran in the bare cast iron back then. Bushes or bearing. Hmm not sure on that one yet. Olite bushings is more authentic if still not strictly speaking original but the whole frame is fabricated and not cast so is there any point in even trying to be authentic with the frame :/ My first hurdle is to get some decent photos that both show the details and are reasonabaly square on so i can scale relatively accurately. I've put out some feelers out to a guy that I think has the lathe I displayed earlier.The pulleys will be another problem but i will see what i can do about that nearer the time if i go ahead with it. It seems everything you do at home suffers from the chicken/ egg problem. you need the tool to make the tool to make the bracket used on the thigy me jig to clamp the whatsnot so you can, i dont know, make the part. Or you can spend a wad of cash on stuff you will likely only use a half dozen times.

Also I dont want to start this only in a month or two have my mate say hes found it and for me to have wasted the little spare cash on stuff to make the countershaft when i could have bought one if id just been a bit patient !

Another route is to bolt two plumbers blocks to some 2x4 and jury rig something out of that but thats not really me although if i was in the desert or at sea i would because id have to. Ive seen a photo off your older countershaft and have also considered an intermediate solution. Ive seen a photo of a countershaft whose frame was made from unistrut as well which was both an inspired solution but rough as a badgers

Also no badgers were harmed during the writing of this posting

I kinda want the original but also want to make it so i can say 'I made this !' :D

Will keep you posted !

Im of for a cuppa tea.

Paul

Edited By Paul Kennedy on 14/01/2019 18:35:43

The opposite side if interested.

081f3ccebe519a2a96d6c72577e7363e.jpg

Edited By Paul Kennedy on 14/01/2019 18:48:16

Neil Wyatt14/01/2019 19:39:40
avatar
Moderator
17970 forum posts
709 photos
77 articles

Hi Paul,

Despite your claim, I have had some badgers complaining about your post.

We want this to be a website that doesn't flag up as unsuitable for schools etc. so please moderate the language a bit.

Thanks

Neil

JasonB14/01/2019 19:43:56
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Moderator
18323 forum posts
2024 photos
1 articles

Neil beat me to it.

Andrew Johnston14/01/2019 20:22:57
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5558 forum posts
650 photos
Posted by Paul Kennedy on 13/01/2019 11:32:34:

OK Guys, Sorry for the title. Just a little humor.

That's no problem, I wouldn't give a Zyto house, let alone workshop, room anyway. teeth 2

Andrew

Bazyle14/01/2019 22:34:27
avatar
5295 forum posts
201 photos

As you mentioned above making one out of wood that wood wink be a good idea so you can experiment with the geometry at minimal cost. Also you will need pulleys and motor so you might as well get those as they will be easy to sell if you do suddenly find the original. At a pinch you can make mock up the plummer blocks in wood and with brass tube or iolite bearings will enable you to run your lathe for real. If gravity doesn't provide enough belt tension fit a bungee cord.

Paul Kennedy14/01/2019 22:41:23
45 forum posts
122 photos

Opps, No worries Neil. I do forget that school children don't know swear words Thanks again for the help the other day. It is appreciated ! FYI I am happy to conform to the sites policy's regardless as I have found the chaps and yourself very knowledgeable and helpful and would not wish to distress or shock anyone especially the latest generation of snowflake. I hear that the term snowman in no longer acceptable either ! Kids are taught that you need to refer to snow sculptures as snow people. Really REALLY. I fully realize and accept the need for a Code of Conduct. Most workplaces operate under some such guidelines at work. However most of the staff take the preverbial out of the C.o.C as well I've run into some issues online before with swearing or some such and would be grateful for help in avoiding further issues ! So ...

While were on the subject, without sarcasm, trolling or any ill intent, where do we draw the line on what is classed as harassment or bullying. What is offensive exactly and when is PC actually oppression. Do we BAN HUMOUR ?I've seen a few distasteful you tube videos of feminists and SJW's (social justice warriors) but I've also seen many celebs and spokepersons speak out against them. Even Stephen Fry, a comedian I have a lot of respect for while i don't necessarily agree with all of his politics as he was a bit too far to the left is now suggesting the PC culture is getting foolish. His college, whats his face, black adder, is also now also standing up and rejecting the PC culture. Is that racist these days i wonder because it uses the word Black. I would say bring back Benny Hill, Rising Damp , Steptoe and Son and lest we forget Alf Garnet but to be honest I'm too tired and have better things to do with my time than argue online with SJW's or listen to Trolls try to provoke me or PC hypocrites tell me what to think. I will think what I want and i will say what I want but I won't do it here as this is not the place for that !

I accept i made an error in trying to inject some humour where i should have stuck to the subject and only the subject without letting personal beliefs,politics and feelings cloud the subject. But come on seriously !

Meanwhile i shall retreat to my mind and fill it with thoughts of countershafts.

>< Unless thinking of shafts is also inappropriate. The badgers will likely ok that off-course.

As is there right off-course.

However more important issues remain. That of defending the honour of the proud and distinguished Mr S Tyzack and lest we forget his son. They produced a truly fine little lathe, much improved upon on earlier lathes and sadly left to languish too many years without major improvements. Now becoming a rare breed.Much like snowmen. However I need to point out us impoverished Northeners are somewhat restricted to the amount of space we can devote to our toys. Mine is in the living room ! I do what I can with the tools i have. As many a man would say you can only bleep with the bleep you've got Who has the right to judge a man for the clothes he wears or the way he talks ! I cant review it however as I've never run such a small lathe before but it is an attractive wee thing and nice to look at. While others might overlook such a fine wee machine. I think they do so in error. For 'from acorns mighty oaks grow' after all.

Im sorry everyone I do go on sometimes. I only wanted some pictures of Countershafts :/

>< LOL

Meanwhile if anyone is still reading this theres a really Funny new South Park esk Cartoon Series available to watch on You Tube. Its about Mining in Australia. Anyone that likes southpark humour should check it out but only if your over 18 and out of nappies. I wont link you too it but its very much in the vein of south park and perhaps made by the same two funny lads that did southpark ! Anyway its called Mining Boom. A funny and healthy look at Work and ... well you just need to watch it. Its not totally offensive but fairly close and ticks just about every box that it could without crossing the line. My line at least ! I don't think it has a PG rating or 18+ for that matter but there is a warning before you watch it. If your sensitive at all about well almost anything really, then you should probably not watch it.

OK I'm done, i'm off to play with Autocad now. And maybe get another cuppa tea. and a chocki biscuit. Hmmm

Paul

Paul Kennedy14/01/2019 23:03:49
45 forum posts
122 photos
Posted by Bazyle on 14/01/2019 22:34:27:

As you mentioned above making one out of wood that wood wink be a good idea so you can experiment with the geometry at minimal cost. Also you will need pulleys and motor so you might as well get those as they will be easy to sell if you do suddenly find the original. At a pinch you can make mock up the plummer blocks in wood and with brass tube or iolite bearings will enable you to run your lathe for real. If gravity doesn't provide enough belt tension fit a bungee cord.

Thanks Bazyle. I've already purchased 2 plumbers blocks weeks ago now before I revised my plans and started considering fabricating a replica of the origional. I Like the bungee cord suggestion but i'm thinking the weight of the frame alone should be enough let alone the shaft and motor and motor fixture plate. If you notice there's a kink or kick to the countershaft arm. The weight is down low and to the back but the shaft and pulley to the front a bit, i presume to keep them within reach of the belt and the machine operator but not so much that they will tilt forward during operation. I think this aspect will need to be carefully thought about, hence my request for accurate photo taken from the side so i can measure the angle and to get an indication of the height of the countershaft frame ! I can scale it and them measure it to get it reasonably close to the original. Also i forgot to say there is a support arm on the left hand side that has a round nut and handle to pinch the arm against the frame thus preventing or reducing the chances of movement so it wont be gravity alone ! I think the intent was for the operator to push the countershaft away from the lathe with one hand until adequate tension was achieved and then tighten the nut up with the other hand. Seems logical and straightforward and easy to make as well. Well if i had  a little more space to move that is.

Thanks for your help though.

Paul

Edited By Paul Kennedy on 14/01/2019 23:15:36

Dibnah15/07/2020 20:30:22
40 forum posts
23 photos

Hi A new custodian of a "Zyto" here. Will post some pics shortly. Plan to make a steel frame from scrap and mount the motor and countershaft above the lathe to reduce the footprint. The motor and countershaft have been mounted to 1/2" plate to the rear previously which seems overkill to me. If I'm about to do something that is obviously foolish please give me a nudge. I think I have enough angle iron to sit tray on and some 40mm box for the legs, will likely throw a shelf underneath too to collect plenty of random bits and pieces. Have asked elsewhere on here about pulley belt. It has had a belt too wide for the current set up and will only seat on middle pulley so want to use either an inside out Poly-V or a powertwist v belt but not 100% sure if either will run well on the existing flat pulley arrangement both on the countershaft and the spindle side ? Ideally the Powertwist as I don't want to strip the spindle out to get belt on. ( If I do then the cheap otion of a poly-v if it runs ok ?)

oldvelo15/07/2020 23:10:13
218 forum posts
51 photos

Hi Paul

Belt tension, speed changing, With a countershaft on self aligning bearings

dscf0984.jpg

dscf0986.jpg

Swinging the weight of the motor to tension the belt is not best practice

Eric

larry phelan 116/07/2020 08:45:37
769 forum posts
14 photos

Nothing wrong with using a Workmate bench for welding up things, I do it all the time and I have a 40 ft x 20ft workshop. Problem is that I cannot see the real workbench anymore, it has become submerged in half-finished jobs.

Anyone else been there ?

Also, nothing wrong with making up your own countershaft, it,s not for show, is it ?indecision

Bazyle16/07/2020 08:49:43
avatar
5295 forum posts
201 photos

"Anyone else been there?'' I wish. 40ftx20ft is bigger than my house. surprise

Perko716/07/2020 11:16:17
338 forum posts
24 photos

Just in relation to oldvelo's final comment that 'Swinging the weight of the motor to tension the belt is not best practice' I would like some advice on why it is considered so. I have used this method on my old flat belt drive lathe for several years but if there are good reasons to change my arrangement I'm all ears.

I have found that it provides even belt tension when changing between the three steps on the flat pulleys and, with careful arrangement of the pivot point location, allows the belt tension to not exceed the power capacity of the motor. In fact I use considerably less tension as it is a useful safety net should something jam or get caught while in use. It does mean I can't take heavy cuts but it's a very old machine and I treat it gently out of respect for it's age. The only problem I have had is shaking of the bench as the motor is not rigidly held, and any minor irregularity in the belt results in shaking of the cradle holding the motor and countershaft, causing the bench to shake as well.

not done it yet16/07/2020 11:23:53
4747 forum posts
16 photos

What I like about this thread is the admission/assumption/claim that Zyto owners are Riff Raff. Is there a way, on the forum, to ignore particular threads? Bye.

larry phelan 116/07/2020 14:20:08
769 forum posts
14 photos

Never ignore insults, you might be able to use them someday.

Never refuse abuse, if you done need it, you can always pass it on.

Last but not least

Dont mind what anyone say,s about you, as long as it,s true !!

From one who has been at the receiving end, more than once.

Life is too short to get annoyed by such creeps.cheeky

oldvelo16/07/2020 18:14:46
218 forum posts
51 photos

Hi perko7

Well done you asked the question and answered with one posting. A factory with motors all jumping and swinging like hammocks in a storm at sea comes to mind

Eric

Perko717/07/2020 13:15:53
338 forum posts
24 photos

Thanks Eric. I'm still not sure though whether there is any other underlying reason that it's not a good idea.

The problem with the shaking bench will hopefully be resolved with a new belt (I obtained some lovely new leather belting from a local shoe repairer) but I'm also considering putting in an adjustable tensioner which will hold the motor reasonably still rather than emulating St Vitus. Still don't want too much tension though. I did once get the cuff of a jacket sleeve caught on a workpiece in the 4-jaw while running at low speed in back gear. I had enough strength to prevent the rest of my arm from joining in but it was a close shave and I'm glad I wasn't running any greater tension. I don't wear long sleeves anymore when using the lathe. In the Aussie climate it's not often necessary anyway.

oldvelo17/07/2020 18:54:26
218 forum posts
51 photos

Hi Perko7

You can adjust a fixed tension on on a belt drive to vary when the belt will slip.

I do this on the mill when tapping threads with a motor that has instant reverse and ramps back up to speed no broken taps for years.

With the wieght of the motor swinging on the tension you have the motor pulling on the belt able to lift up and drop down this will over tension the belt and the motor climbs again is the most likely cause of the oscillations.

A heavy intermittent cut at slow speed will demonstrate this best.

Eric

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