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Ukraine model engine factories

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Barrie Lever06/01/2019 10:00:35
102 forum posts
23 photos

Firstly I guess that some kind of background info is required to support these photo's.

Competition aeromodelling (Control line speed, Control line team racing, Control line combat and Rc pylon racing) has been a hot bed of model engine development since the late 1950's, during the cold war era the eastern european countries and particulary the USSR allowed resource to be used in this power race.

When the cold war ended a number of these eastern manufacturers who were primarily located around the city of Karkov turned their skills to the commercial production of their very succesful engines. The main factories are named Profi and Fora.

These engines are of the highest quality and precision and have featured a number of interesting features. For example on the Profi engines the rear bearing supporting the crankshaft has no inner race, the balls run on a track ground into the crankshaft, this allows a smaller diameter bearing to be used on a crankshaft that has the induction port running down the centre axis and hence has a larger than expected diameter.

Profi also have perfected the serial manufacture of aluminium cylinders that are chrome plated and have all of the transfer and exhaust ports cast in place, somewhat like a motorcycle engine but with a capacity of 6.5cc.

The remarkable thing to notice in these photo's is that there are no expensive German, Swiss or Japanese machine tools and no formal inspection areas. Each worker has an intimate knowledge of what he is producing and what the qwerks are of his equipment.

Good competition engines are made in other areas, notably Nelson in the USA, Pete halman in England and OS in Japan.

Regards

Barrie

profi 9.jpgprofi 8.jpgprofi 6.jpgprofi 5.jpgprofi 4.jpgprofi 3.jpgprofi 2.jpgprofi 10.jpgprofi 1.jpgfora 8.jpgfora 7.jpgfora 6.jpgfora 5.jpgfora 4.jpgfora 3.jpgfora 2.jpgfora 1.jpg

Mick B106/01/2019 10:22:47
874 forum posts
53 photos

Thanks for that - it's very interesting that a workshop of such casual appearance can produce such results.

How does the business work? Is it some kind of co-operative? Is there a sales deprtment? If each craftsman knows his part of the work in such detail, worker flexibility must be difficult or impossible to achieve - sickness or absence of each or any worker would presumably affect a range of their products. Are they self-employed (or local equivalent) or on a company payroll?

I'm just wondering whether there's any sort of an organisational model there that could work here?

Edited By Mick B1 on 06/01/2019 10:24:04

Barrie Lever06/01/2019 10:40:25
102 forum posts
23 photos

Hello Mick

The results are stunning to be honest. Also those from the other companies mentioned.

The businesses are privately owned in quite a western way, I am not sure how the workers are employed but I doubt it is very formal.

I would think that worker flexibility might be an issue but sickness and absense falls right away once self employment is bought onto the table but that is starting to get a little political.

I know that the chaps running the factories have done quite well, when they started they lived in Soviet era tower blocks now they live in houses out in the country away from the city.

The business model that is transferable is that they care what they are doing and each and every part matters to them, I have said before that some of the highest quality items that I have ever seen (motorsport parts etc) are produced without any formal quality control just that the people making the items know what they are doing, same with these model engine factories.

Regards

Barrie

Niels Abildgaard06/01/2019 11:22:00
183 forum posts
40 photos

Very interesting .

Thank You

The Profi V6 thing crank looks like a Schilling construction and I have never understood how they are made and kept together.

Are there some general marketing material,describtions etc available on the webfrom Ukraine?

My dream is a V2 twostroke test engine with common crancase and OHV,SV and normal piston exhaust using a common block and crank.

I have never been able to make a suitable crankshaft.

 

https://imgur.com/kgeUWsJ

https://imgur.com/sOCfRuu

https://imgur.com/SOqAT4f

 

 

Maybe the Ukranians can do it?

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 06/01/2019 11:24:40

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 06/01/2019 11:28:32

Ady106/01/2019 11:25:51
avatar
3460 forum posts
513 photos

People with real skills tend to do well, whether in a small group or as self employed, because they produce desirable products

Jewellery is a simple example

Edit: Much easier to survive nowadays because of the global reach of the internet, advertising is really really easy

Edited By Ady1 on 06/01/2019 11:29:09

not done it yet06/01/2019 11:41:34
2572 forum posts
11 photos

Just looked on ‘goggle’ and saw a profi 50 sold as limited production Austrian manufacture. Apparently sold for $2300.

Are these current models, some marketing ploys at work, or what?

I wonder how that 50cc dohc engine would fly in a moped frame!

Barrie Lever06/01/2019 11:43:30
102 forum posts
23 photos

Niels

The best way to contact these people is through their sales outlets.

http://www.f2dservice.com/index.html

https://technohobby.com.ua/

There is a bit of 'bun fight' between these two sales guys so go careful.

Generally the manufacturers seem to go through people either in their own country or the west who are more sales minded, although I have had Profi manufacture crankshafts directly for me of the type that I described.

Regards

Barrie

colin wilkinson06/01/2019 11:44:26
43 forum posts

Ref the DOHC Profi 50cc. Colin

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mh12/auction/lots/l448

Barrie Lever06/01/2019 11:46:35
102 forum posts
23 photos

The 50cc was made around 2008, I think it was actually sold by Czech company Mezick (spelling check required).

They made the 50cc because they could and to showcase their skills.

These guys at the factories don't have cunning marketing plans/ideas.

Barrie

Barrie Lever06/01/2019 11:48:39
102 forum posts
23 photos

Colin

What superb photo's in the link you provided.

Definately not manufactured in Austria though.

Regards Barrie

Dave Halford06/01/2019 12:02:27
295 forum posts
3 photos

I think it's a conspiracy to fool ME's into believing you can make really small parts on big machines and thus push up the prices for industrial plant.

Ady106/01/2019 12:17:23
avatar
3460 forum posts
513 photos

dean clarke 2 in here does this kind of stuff on huge machines

Haven't seen him in here for a while though, hope he's ok

Edited By Ady1 on 06/01/2019 12:21:59

JasonB06/01/2019 13:54:47
avatar
Moderator
14642 forum posts
1454 photos

Thanks for that Barrie.

not done it yet06/01/2019 15:16:12
2572 forum posts
11 photos
Posted by Barrie Lever on 06/01/2019 11:46:35:

The 50cc was made around 2008, I think it was actually sold by Czech company Mezick (spelling check required).

They made the 50cc because they could and to showcase their skills.

These guys at the factories don't have cunning marketing plans/ideas.

Barrie

I wasn’t really expecting that it was them. Either the seller or the auctioneers.devil

DrDave06/01/2019 15:40:58
152 forum posts
30 photos

Thanks for posting those photos, Barrie. I used to drool over these F2A engines when Ian Mander was the UK agent for anything control line speed related. In the end my budget would only stretch to a second hand OPS. Sigh!

Barrie Lever06/01/2019 18:10:41
102 forum posts
23 photos

DrDave

I remember Ian well, he went to New Zealand to live and did not keep in touch with people back home.

The OPS was quite a good engine but not as good as the exotic stuff that Ian was selling.

I was an OPS sponsered pilot in RC pylon racing, I knew the factory guys quite well (Piero Muzio and Rossetti). I still fly pylon and do some C/L speed now as well, currently flying pulse jet speed.


Pulse jet control line speed model

Did you ever fly the OPS?

Regards Barrie

DrDave06/01/2019 18:18:55
152 forum posts
30 photos

Yes, I flew the OPS in Ian’s “speed trainer”. Very docile (& slow!), but I had an interesting moment when the down line broke when I tried to shut off the engine...

I never really got to grips with the fully asymmetrical ‘planes: it would inevitably turn in and eat the lines. I only got a few flights with the OPS in a proper model.

Respect, too, to anyone who flys a CL pulsejet!

Regards

Dave

Barrie Lever06/01/2019 18:26:07
102 forum posts
23 photos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhHmpEFehew

I have a few take off issues, the dolly is ultra critical, in the video above we skidded the model off.

Barrie

Edited By JasonB on 06/01/2019 18:37:00

DrDave06/01/2019 18:35:23
152 forum posts
30 photos
Posted by Barrie Lever on 06/01/2019 18:26:07:

I have a few take off issues, the dolly is ultra critical

I used to use Ian’s dolly, so pure pilot induced cock-ups. But with the thrust line outboard from the cg, there is an inward turning moment that bit me most times sad.

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