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What Did You Do Today 2019

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Neil Wyatt26/05/2019 12:27:16
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16446 forum posts
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Posted by Nicholas Farr on 26/05/2019 08:34:46:

Hi Neil, nice piece of kit. What size are the units in the combo and power rating?

Regards Nick.

Combo is the classic 4x10" but the original celestions have been replaced with Eminence Alpha 10As rated 100W each. The cab on top is 2x12" Mackenzies (not sure but probably 100W each).

That's the original Trace Elliot GP11 Mk V combo so it's an apparently feeble 150 watts, but they have a reputation for being very loud and I am sure it's as loud or louder than an 500W ashdown amp and head I played with recently.

Trace gave very conservative ratings and headroom is more important than RMS for bass. The power supply is easily sufficient to put around 400 watts into 4 ohms. Today that would probably mean an amp with a sticker saying "1000 watts"...

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2019 12:30:30

Neil Wyatt26/05/2019 12:31:45
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Moderator
16446 forum posts
686 photos
74 articles

Let's steer clear of getting political...

Neil

SillyOldDuffer26/05/2019 13:00:17
4601 forum posts
988 photos
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2019 12:27:16:
Posted by Nicholas Farr on 26/05/2019 08:34:46:

Hi Neil, nice piece of kit. What size are the units in the combo and power rating?

Regards Nick.

Combo is the classic 4x10" but the original celestions have been replaced with Eminence Alpha 10As rated 100W each. The cab on top is 2x12" Mackenzies (not sure but probably 100W each).

That's the original Trace Elliot GP11 Mk V combo so it's an apparently feeble 150 watts, but they have a reputation for being very loud and I am sure it's as loud or louder than an 500W ashdown amp and head I played with recently.

Trace gave very conservative ratings and headroom is more important than RMS for bass. The power supply is easily sufficient to put around 400 watts into 4 ohms. Today that would probably mean an amp with a sticker saying "1000 watts"...

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2019 12:30:30

This table from Hyperphysics lists the power outputs of various instruments and rates a large orchestra at under 70W. I'm always a bit surprised how weedy musical instruments are. Are big amplifiers only needed because loudspeaker efficiencies are so low, or is it because rock and roll sounds best with the Volume at 11?

Source
Power Output (watts)
Large orchestra
67
Bass drum
25
Snare drum
12
Cymbals
9.5
Trombone
6.4
Piano
0.44
Trumpet
0.31
Tuba
0.20
Double bass
0.16
Flute
0.055
French horn
0.053
Clarinet
0.050

As all true music fans know even the best amps and speakers are garbage unless connected with Industrial Gauge Oxygen Free Gold Plated Silver Litz Wire Tri-filar wound on a helical PTFE core, and then fitted with bespoke insulating jackets hand-knitted in special-mix Kevlar, Carbon Fibre, and Vucana by nubile maidens. Nothing is too much trouble for proper audio pleasure...

Dave

Colin Heseltine26/05/2019 13:09:11
320 forum posts
74 photos

Got up early and went to car boot near Lichfield. Found a guy selling vintage woodwork tools, no so interested in those but he had a toolbox with reamers and drills. Negotiated the 5 reamers, radius end mill, plain end mill, countebore, burr and ball nose cutter down to a £5. Looked at the taps but decided to ignore them.

Wandered round other stalls saw nothing of interest so went back. Decided to pick all the taps and a new box of E clips, and couple of sized spacers. Got talking to him and he said he had a few micrometers. Well I've got most sizes but had a look anyway. He had one I do not have a VIN Tube Micrometer. So I grabbed it. Quick negotiation an £10 got me all the taps, e clips, tube micrometer, carbide drill and the spaces and small parallels for £10. Result.

Picture below, well worth £15 I thought.

Colinimg_5021.jpg

Andrew Johnston26/05/2019 13:49:22
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4786 forum posts
538 photos
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2019 12:31:45:

Let's steer clear of getting political..

I'm not sure if the matter under discussion is a comedy or a tragedy, but it sure ain't politics. smile

Andrew

Harry Wilkes26/05/2019 13:54:43
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699 forum posts
59 photos

If it's the one on Muckly Corner no wonder all the swag had gone wink

H

Colin Heseltine26/05/2019 13:59:34
320 forum posts
74 photos

Harry,

No not the Muckley corner one, the Wood Farm one near Curborough. Now the guy knows someone is interested in engineering tools he says he will hopefully bring some more along. He wouldn't normally buy/sell this type of stuff.

Is there normally engineering type tools at the Muckley Corner one?

Colin

Harry Wilkes26/05/2019 14:12:13
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699 forum posts
59 photos

Dont know that on Colin will have to check it out yes

H

Nicholas Farr26/05/2019 14:36:34
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1945 forum posts
925 photos

Hi Neil, thanks for the info, bet they sound good. I love a bit lot of base. I'll bet they are a bit punchier than my pair of Disco cabs with 2 X 12" Goodmans twin Axiom at 40W DIN music power per unit, which I have in my music room (lounge) driven by a Tecnics SU-3050 amp.

Hi SOD, why stop at 11, and mine are connected with Maplins heavy speaker twin, no thrills attached wire and sound pretty fantastic with anything from Easy Listening to the Groundhogs Split album.

Regards Nick.

bricky26/05/2019 16:44:49
378 forum posts
47 photos

Machined to size a pinion blank and cut 12 teeth to fit a circular rack of 9" diameter and 6" long which I machined the other day.

Frank.

Neil Wyatt26/05/2019 17:40:36
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Moderator
16446 forum posts
686 photos
74 articles
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 26/05/2019 13:00:17:
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2019 12:27:16:
Posted by Nicholas Farr on 26/05/2019 08:34:46:

Hi Neil, nice piece of kit. What size are the units in the combo and power rating?

Regards Nick.

Combo is the classic 4x10" but the original celestions have been replaced with Eminence Alpha 10As rated 100W each. The cab on top is 2x12" Mackenzies (not sure but probably 100W each).

That's the original Trace Elliot GP11 Mk V combo so it's an apparently feeble 150 watts, but they have a reputation for being very loud and I am sure it's as loud or louder than an 500W ashdown amp and head I played with recently.

Trace gave very conservative ratings and headroom is more important than RMS for bass. The power supply is easily sufficient to put around 400 watts into 4 ohms. Today that would probably mean an amp with a sticker saying "1000 watts"...

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2019 12:30:30

This table from Hyperphysics lists the power outputs of various instruments and rates a large orchestra at under 70W. I'm always a bit surprised how weedy musical instruments are. Are big amplifiers only needed because loudspeaker efficiencies are so low, or is it because rock and roll sounds best with the Volume at 11?

Source
Power Output (watts)
Large orchestra
67
Bass drum
25
Snare drum
12
Cymbals
9.5
Trombone
6.4
Piano
0.44
Trumpet
0.31
Tuba
0.20
Double bass
0.16
Flute
0.055
French horn
0.053
Clarinet
0.050

As all true music fans know even the best amps and speakers are garbage unless connected with Industrial Gauge Oxygen Free Gold Plated Silver Litz Wire Tri-filar wound on a helical PTFE core, and then fitted with bespoke insulating jackets hand-knitted in special-mix Kevlar, Carbon Fibre, and Vucana by nubile maidens. Nothing is too much trouble for proper audio pleasure...

Dave

I remember reading a book as a teenager where the author recounted doing an A/B test with an orchestra, audience and a speaker and concluded about 10 watts was right, but with a very efficient horn speaker.

I think the answer is complex. The easiest answer is to go to a concert by a big rock band and then you will know why.

Worth bearing in mind that a rock band with a massive PA throwing out 6,700watts is only going to sound four times as loud as that orchestra...

In practice, a lot of it is about headroom; I use a compressor which has three useful effects: it limits the peaks, reducing potential for hearing damage, it raises the quiet bits so I don't need to be as loud (and most importantly it helps mask volume differences due to deficiencies in technique )

As for the green pen hifi brigade, I suggest an 'oxygen-free environment'...

Neil.

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2019 17:46:33

Mike Poole26/05/2019 17:49:05
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2048 forum posts
47 photos

Ted Nugent ( not for nothing known as loud man) made my ears ring for three days and walking away from Birmingham Odeon I felt like I had a pillow over each ear. A gig in America where Ted used a 167kW sound system got complaints from 15 miles away. PA speakers seem to be much more powerful these days and more compact, I suppose the design has become more scientific and they are more efficient. Funny how I have been to more gigs in recent times with poor sound than I used to in the 70s. You would think the Spice Girls could afford a decent sound engineer and PA system but I saw they were slammed for poor sound at their Irish gig a few days ago. Luckily I will not be finding out if their UK gigs improve.

Mike

Samsaranda26/05/2019 18:26:53
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776 forum posts
5 photos

A 167 kw sound system is unbelievable, I guarantee that those within range would have suffered permanent damage to their hearing, not always apparent at the time. I suffered exposure to gas turbine engine noise in the early 60’s without hearing protection and consequently have suffered a profound loss on my high frequency hearing, I jokingly say that it is only women’s voices that I have difficulty hearing, really winds up the wife, the reality is that even with high gain hearing aids I struggle in any social environment, the only place I feel on the same level as everyone else is when I am clay pigeon shooting because we all wear ear plugs so we are all equally handicapped. Noise is such a crippling environment, youngsters are totally unaware of the damage they do to themselves when they wind up the volume on their earphones.

Dave W

Neil Wyatt26/05/2019 18:57:40
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Moderator
16446 forum posts
686 photos
74 articles
Posted by Samsaranda on 26/05/2019 18:26:53:

Noise is such a crippling environment, youngsters are totally unaware of the damage they do to themselves when they wind up the volume on their earphones.

Dave W

I fear more ears have been damaged by headhones than rock concerts.

There's this famous PA:

About 55kW, but the intention was focused more on spound quality than sheer power.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_Sound_(Grateful_Dead)

Neil

Mike Poole26/05/2019 20:11:27
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2048 forum posts
47 photos

It seems Teds puny 167kW system was trumped by Iron Maidens 500kW system at the 1988 Monsters of Rock at Donington, I missed that one.

Mike

duncan webster26/05/2019 20:43:09
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2204 forum posts
32 photos

........., or is it because rock and roll sounds best with the Volume at 11?

Dave

Rock n Roll sounds best with the amp switched off! Interesting as an ex trombone player that I was the loudest musical instrument, you can't count drums, all you have to do is hit them

martin perman26/05/2019 21:37:53
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1636 forum posts
67 photos

Not so much what I did today but what I did at the weekend and that was to travel to a Gloucestershire campsite on Friday with my Brother and spend the Saturday at the Prescott Speed Hill Climb track watching all types of vehicles try to be the fastest, we then spent another night at the camp site and came home today.

Martin P

Danny M2Z27/05/2019 06:26:24
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740 forum posts
278 photos
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2019 12:31:45:

Let's steer clear of getting political...

Neil

My sincere apologies for raising the subject Neil. It was intended to be a light hearted joke using a play on words.

* Danny M *

Wout Moerman 127/05/2019 07:59:11
10 forum posts
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 26/05/2019 13:00:17:
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2019 12:27:16:
Posted by Nicholas Farr on 26/05/2019

This table from Hyperphysics lists the power outputs of various instruments and rates a large orchestra at under 70W. I'm always a bit surprised how weedy musical instruments are. Are big amplifiers only needed because loudspeaker efficiencies are so low, or is it because rock and roll sounds best with the Volume at 11?

Source
Power Output (watts)
Large orchestra
67
Bass drum
25
Snare drum
12
Cymbals
9.5
Trombone
6.4
Piano
0.44
Trumpet
0.31
Tuba
0.20
Double bass
0.16
Flute
0.055
French horn
0.053
Clarinet
0.050

As all true music fans know even the best amps and speakers are garbage unless connected with Industrial Gauge Oxygen Free Gold Plated Silver Litz Wire Tri-filar wound on a helical PTFE core, and then fitted with bespoke insulating jackets hand-knitted in special-mix Kevlar, Carbon Fibre, and Vucana by nubile maidens. Nothing is too much trouble for proper audio pleasure...

Dave

This is probably the power needed in the living room for reproduction of the music? For stage performance we need a bit more power to fill a hall satisfactory. But I'm always surprised what I can manage with my double bass unamplified. As long as I play indoors....

Andrew Johnston27/05/2019 08:12:19
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4786 forum posts
538 photos
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 26/05/2019 13:00:17:

As all true music fans know even the best amps and speakers are garbage unless connected with Industrial Gauge Oxygen Free Gold Plated Silver Litz Wire Tri-filar wound on a helical PTFE core, and then fitted with bespoke insulating jackets hand-knitted in special-mix Kevlar, Carbon Fibre, and Vucana by nubile maidens. Nothing is too much trouble for proper audio pleasure...

You forgot to mention the gold plated mains plug................smile

Andrew

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