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Yorkshire Steam Wagon Drawings ???

Looking for original source.

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Darren Conway03/06/2020 22:28:54
24 forum posts
5 photos

Hi

Copyright of the original drawings is of no concern to me. I am not using them in a way that would breech any copyright.

The CAD drawings I own.

Yes, I do want to build a maintainable, repairable steel boiler. That includes rolled-in tubes.

I have not figured out if that is achievable yet. I think I will need to make custom tube rolling tools to fit in the available working space.

Dazz

Jeff Dayman03/06/2020 22:51:52
1818 forum posts
45 photos

You might check into a design mentioned by John Haining in his "Countrymans' Steam" book from the 1980's. He describes a steel "Suffolk" boiler which outwardly looks like a Yorkshire wagon boiler but is much simpler internally. He also mentioned several improvements to the design by various people to ease internal cleaning.

Darren Conway03/06/2020 23:28:53
24 forum posts
5 photos

Hi

That might be a really good idea but there is no danger of me getting access to a copy of that book.

Dazz

Hopper04/06/2020 03:20:12
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4553 forum posts
94 photos

It's an interesting point with CAD drawings. Although moot in this case with 100 year old originals. But I think you will find that you don't actually own the CAD drawings if they are a copy of or even derivative from someone else's paper drawings. Their copyright protects their intellectual property, ie the the concept and design, not just the ink lines describing it.

Of course in an obscure enthusiast field like model engineering, the copyright police are unlikely to come banging on your door with a warrant in hand and kneel on your neck or anything.

But it is interesting how these "new" technologies are so widely considered an exception to existing laws. As many website owners sued for defamation found out in the early years of the internet.

JasonB04/06/2020 07:17:59
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Moderator
18151 forum posts
1998 photos
1 articles

The CAD drawings will be nothing like the original full size drawings Darren is working from, plenty of other sets of drawing for models taken from other original works drawings over the years and the person drawing them has the copy right. Grey area if Darren were redrawing a set of 4" drawings in CAD but he is not.

Hopper04/06/2020 07:52:07
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4553 forum posts
94 photos

Yes it's an interesting anomaly in IP law and its application over the years.

John Wight04/06/2020 09:09:19
3 forum posts

The Haining dredger boiler was featured in ME some years ago, I will see if I can find it again in the database. Unfortunately with the lock down I do not have access to our club archive but may be able to find it otherwise.

A comment on steel boilers. I am a club boiler tester and the NAME and other model engineering societies have revised the test code to mandate that steel boilers must have the cladding removed every 7 years for inspection. This does not apply to commercial testing. Also as you probably know a steel boiler must be welded by a welder certified for pressure vessels and have all design calculations verified by an independent expert before it can be tested and certified. Personally I would build in copper but that is the builder's choice.

John

Darren Conway04/06/2020 10:18:00
24 forum posts
5 photos

Hi

I am a professional engineer and I have spent time punching sprays at the face of full sized marine boilers. It is rare to find pressured copper boilers outside of model engineering. I am not saying copper should not be used. I am saying that I would prefer not to use copper.

As previously stated, I haven't yet figured out how to make the boiler. No options are ruled out.

Dazz

JasonB04/06/2020 10:24:29
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Moderator
18151 forum posts
1998 photos
1 articles

Previous post removed.

The Suffolk boiler is not a return tube one, just has three cross tubes to simplify things though no way to get to the tubes should they ever need replacing and not a lot of heating area.

Edited By JasonB on 04/06/2020 10:26:00

John Wight04/06/2020 10:48:33
3 forum posts

Darren

Fair point, I have also spent a lot of years working on full size boilers, in my case standard gauge steam locomotive ones, and agree entirely with what you say regarding anything bigger than 4" scale.

John

Mark Easingwood04/06/2020 21:43:31
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12 forum posts
4 photos

Whilst I was looking at something else on ebay, I came upon this book, if it's of interest to anyone.

** Yorkshire Patent Steam Wagon **

Paul Kemp05/06/2020 00:11:14
485 forum posts
18 photos
Posted by John Wight on 04/06/2020 09:09:19:

The Haining dredger boiler was featured in ME some years ago, I will see if I can find it again in the database. Unfortunately with the lock down I do not have access to our club archive but may be able to find it otherwise.

A comment on steel boilers. I am a club boiler tester and the NAME and other model engineering societies have revised the test code to mandate that steel boilers must have the cladding removed every 7 years for inspection. This does not apply to commercial testing. Also as you probably know a steel boiler must be welded by a welder certified for pressure vessels and have all design calculations verified by an independent expert before it can be tested and certified. Personally I would build in copper but that is the builder's choice.

John

John,

As Darren is in New Zealand I very much doubt the UK code would be recognised. Closest geographically would be the Australian (which is more onerous than ours in limiting WP of steel boilers). As to design verification under 'our' code the boiler inspector approval is sufficient if the builder can present his own evidence.

Quoting the 2018 version of the code in section 5, Design Verification; "The constructor of a boiler to other than a recognised design available through the model engineering trade and/or press shall produce design drawings and demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Inspector, either by calculation or by well-proven example, that the design and materials used have adequate strength."

If the inspector cannot be satisfied by assessing the builder's calculations and requires an independent expert approval then surely the inspector is outside his competence to test that particular boiler as defined elsewhere in the code?

The 7 year cladding removal for steel boilers may be extended to 10 years at the discretion of the inspector with a justification noted on the certificate (which is in line with commercial practice and in my opinion perfectly sensible).

Paul.

Darren Conway05/06/2020 06:49:16
24 forum posts
5 photos
Posted by Mark Easingwood on 04/06/2020 21:43:31:

Whilst I was looking at something else on ebay, I came upon this book, if it's of interest to anyone.

** Yorkshire Patent Steam Wagon **

I'd like to bid but the seller doesn't post international and e-bay blocks attempts to contact him to ask if he would make an exception. Very frustrating.

Dazz

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